Things you just have to have to start farming...

[rockinmywaypa]

I always thought that if you are going to be a beef farmer all you need is the beef cattle, everything else is luxuries that are not going to make you any money but will cost you. Proper rotational grazing will keep the grass neatly trimmed. If you need winter feed, consider buying it in so that you can carry as many cattle as you can on your base property, this will maxamise income per acre and return on investment. Now if I would only follow my own advise.

 

[Spiveyman]

The carry all can certainly be handy, but a front end loader is so much better and may eliminate the need for the carry all. But do you just have to have those things? Maybe, maybe not. Lots of farming was done before tractors came on the scene.

Wow! Thanks for all the responses! I'll try to answer some questions here. Honestly the carry all carried more grandkids than anything else as best I remember. That was back in the days of square bales for cattle. Papaw would load up the carry all and hit the fields in the winter. It also came in handy moving a refrigerator one time. I agree about the "lots dont before tractors" comment, but since someone went to all the trouble to invent these fine toys... uh I mean implements of work, I might as well use the ones that will help the most.

As for what I'm doing, I mentioned it briefly, but I'm raising Texas Longhorns and marketing the beef here locally. All my family thinks I'm nuts, they are Angus/Charlois people, but they also lost their tails this year with the grain problems and feedlots not buying cattle. I won't go into all the benefits of Longhorn beef, but as cattle they are ideal. The closest thing to auto pilot you can have for a raising cattle. I sell the beef at grocery stores and restaurants, but I market it as grass fed all natural so I don't buy feed for them and we practice "sustainable agriculture" so I'll only have as many on my 170 acres as I can sustain there. That should explain the focus of my operation anyways. I need to read some other replys to refresh my memory on what else to answer....

 

[Spiveyman]

Hey, if you're gonna raise beef cattle, what do you need a batwing mower for???thats what the cattle are for!!! You need barb wire, posts and like material and a bunch of hands with gloves on them more than a rotary mower! Oh yeah, don't forget the banding pliers (lets see who knows what they're for.....)BobG in VA

Even with cattle, they don't eat all the weeds, so I try to mow at least once a year, sometime twice when it rains. Having a wider deck to mow cuts the seat time down so I can see my 3 year old daughter and my 5 month old son during the summer months. You can't buy back that time, so the expense of the equipment is worth it to a degree.

Not sure what your finances are but if you can afford a 170 acre farm ...

Well, the kicker there is I don't borrow money (except for the land itself) so it's only what I can save up and pay cash for. I'll buy used and get by with what I can. That's why my papaw suggested having someone mow on shares until I get so many cattle that I have to have all the hay. I have some old equipment from my late grandpa: rotary mower, harrow (though I don't know what it is for), grater blade (I use this mostly to maintain the driveway and paths on the farm, spreading gravel.)

...banding pliers (lets see who knows what they're for.....)

Ha! We actually have a Calicrate Bander, very very nice compared to the "slit and yank" technique. The only problem there is no fries for Christmas dinner. However, I decided to leave the boys in tact. I just don't like the way they are filling out as steers. Not enough meat (keep in mind I'm raising Texas Longhorns not Angus, so I need the muscle because there's no fat.) Right now I've got about 40 bulls with growing horns. This now also qualifies as an extreem sport!!!

 

[Spiveyman]

Since you're new to farming, remember to plant your cows about 8' apart to give them room to grow - but not too deep or they may start to rot.

OK, classic! Thanks for the laugh. May I use that one? Very funny!

With 160 acres of fencing (unless you use the deep cow planting technique) I'd imagine a post hole digger is useful. You'll probably want a pond or two, do you need to build them or are you buying a working farm?

Post hole digger - papaw has a 3ph digger that I can borrow, very good suggestion though. A must for fencing. Some ponds already there feeding troughs, need more though... great ideas.

PTO pump... PTO generator... backhoe... chipper...

Awesome ideas, soooo many toys. I only have about 10 acres of woods and some treelines over creeks.

...depends on whether you want to be an honest-to-gosh self-sufficient farmer or if you're like me and enjoy pretending to farm while playing with tractor toys. If you're just playing you can grow slowly and hire out the jobs you're not sure of. Another good question is whether you'll be growing your own feed grain, that adds a whole new dimension to your needs.

My farming family in PA told me about one of their neighbors who won the lottery. He won millions of dollars and when he was interviewed on TV they asked what he was going to do now that he doesn't need to work anymore. His response: "Whelp, I guess I'll keep on farming 'till it's gone"

Great post, thanks man. I'm in it for real, but I love the toys to. I like the hire till I decide what I need or want to do myself idea!

 

[texasjohn]

Well, first, welcome to TBN, land of many opinions freely expressed

Now... here in Texas, if you're messing with cow brutes, you're a rancher, not a farmer

But since you're messing with longhorns, you're more into pretty critters than beef critters. I suspect you are going the purebred route where pretty truly does count more than anything else. I understand that very well since I mess with purebred beefmasters.

Now, I think the most important thing is a philosophy for your cattle raising...I can only give you mine and you'll have to determine for yourself which to adopt and which to adapt.

1) Every animal must be gentle... if you can't get them in the pen you can't sell them or if you get hurt it costs money. You don't want to pet them but they should follow you when you have a feed bucket right into the pens and stand quietly.
2) fertility matters. If your cows don't get bred to calve at 24 months or your bulls miss breeding a cow, you have less to sell than you should have.
3) hardiness is important... if you are always calling the vet to calve a cow or fix a lazy prepuce or save a weak calf or otherwise perform expensive acts.. it costs more than it pays. Keep the animal, the breed suffers.
4) milking ability and mothering ability is required for a cow to raise a good heavy weaning calf. If she ignores it, refuses to mother it or is a light milker, you should find a place for her at the auction barn.
5) Weight gain on natural forage is key, measured by an actual scale, no guesses. Anybody can get a cow/calf fat with expensive grain. What you sell is either actual pounds, or the promise of pounds when selling an animal as purebred.
6) Conformation is sadly often misunderstood. Bad legs, wry nose, deformities, etc. clearly disqualify an animal to stay in the herd. Beyond that, little matters except items 1-5. Function dictates form. Nevertheless, the eye of man too often looks at a cow brute and influences about 75% of its value (purebred speaking) at auctions not ruled by scales.

I suspect that you recognize the above items as the "six essentials" that Beefmasters are founded on. I know you will find that longhorns share many of these same qualities and are historically strong in fertility, hardiness, longevity, calving ease, mothering ability, etc.

Since my operation is of similar size, here is my considered opinion for your operation... you need:

squeeze chute: you must be able to handle the animals without hurting them or yourselves.. an early must have purchase. A roundabout pen and long chute is invaluable when moving animals into the squeeze and headgate.

feed trough in pens.

roping rope... there are times when you have to use it

bull nose pliars... amazing tool can be used to control the heads of calves and fully grown animals... I think this is a critical implement for you.

calving chains.. you hope you won't need them, but you will, someday, if for no other reason that a calf is upside down and backwards and a leg is back.

battery headlight.. leaves the hands free... you will do lots of stuff at night.

a pair of small radios for communications..one for you, one for the house or whoever is assisting you... much better than shouting... safety item as well. Ranching is dangerous, be prepared.

Regarding equipment, I'm extremely pleased with what I have... see my signature. I don't need another tractor. Implements well worth more than the $$ include:
FEL WITH CHAIN HOOKS
CARRY ALL WITH CHAIN HOOKS
SPRAY RIG FOR HERBICIDES AND INSECTICIDES
LIGHTS ON REAR OF TRACTOR
HAY SPIKE FOR FEL, HAY FORK FOR 3PH (AND ROUND BALE RINGS)
LOW FLATBED TRAILER, 18', CARRIES STUFF, FRONT WENCH, RAMPS
GENERATOR.. ELECTRICITY WHERE AND WHEN YOU NEED IT

If you wish additional details or expanded info, PM me.

Hmm... posted, then saw your further discussion of objectives, etc... grass fed, local market, great idea and I think you're going the right direction IMHO.

Love your signature... and I well understand it!

 

[Spiveyman]

...My best advice would be too Listen to your Paw, he's probably got more information in his head than he has time to teach you.

Very true. He's the real deal my papaw, a farmer in his heart of hearts!

... at least two large tractors 80-100hp for running large implements to save on time and at least one small 50hp or a little less range tractor for working in and around the barn/'s.

Really? I'm hoping to get by with one big (I just bought a Ford 6610) and a small one (Ford 4610 or 5610 in the future).

Not knowing what the land is like around your farm you my need a small excavator in the 17,000lb range for ditching, rock removal and the such. As far as implements it all depends on what you will be doing. In a large farm of your size I would have a FEL on the small tractor and one of the larger tractors. You will need a dump truck medium size and of course some type of mower. And I'm sure many other things.

It has the perfect lay, gentle rolling hills a few flat spots. This is the heart of the Bluegrass state, lots of rain (usually) and great landscape. Little to no rocks, great soil for ponds, a little too much clay, but it works.

I always thought that if you are going to be a beef farmer all you need is the beef cattle, everything else is luxuries that are not going to make you any money but will cost you. Proper rotational grazing will keep the grass neatly trimmed. If you need winter feed, consider buying it in so that you can carry as many cattle as you can on your base property, this will maxamise income per acre and return on investment. Now if I would only follow my own advise.

Good points, rotational grazing, very important for me. I want to limit the toys, but get what will make things easier so I can keep my priorities in check with how much time I devote to the farm. I want to be a husband and dad too. Of course I NEED some seat time to be good at either, I'm sure you can all relate to that!

 

[texasjohn]

Spiveyman.... electricity is your friend... get you a REAL electric fence charger... qualified for at least 100 miles... 200 is better!. Smooth wire and rachets are wonderful! I'm talking the new high impedence fence chargers. Brand doesn't matter as much as the JOULES it puts out... more is better.

I do high intensity grazing, too... you will end up with MILES of fence... works well...

Reading about your land, you will want to research here on TBN about how to lay pipe underground...just by pulling it into the ground with a "subsoiler".. this is another extremely high benefit tool.. a must have.. you will use it to both pull insulated wire under gates AND to pull plastic (PVC or black plastic roll) pipe under ground without having to do a trench first... wish I had discovered this method much earlier!

If at all possible, find somewhere that makes concrete drain culverts... 4 feet in diameter or so and 3 to 5 feet long. If you get their defects for free, you are in heaven! Take one/two of those suckers, plant it where you want a fence corner.. that bugger will stay there.. no rot, no pullin out of the ground... wrap your wire around it and you are ready to go! Tain't purty, but by golly it's stout!

 

[Spiveyman]

Yes, I'm going to have to do that. Good point. Most of the line fences are posts/woven wire with barbed wire top strand, but not electric. MY main herd sire (the one in the picture under my name) jumped the danged fence 3 times when we bought him and tried to load him (from the farm where we bought him). A little juice in that line might have deterred him, and I'm probably going to need electric because he's learned that he's capable of going over/through some fences.

OK, I'm very interested in this deal of pulling PVC without having to trench! I have a buddy that just installed a watering system on his farm, the kind that goes way under ground, and has the balls that float up and seal off the water when the stock aren't drinking. They dug HUGE trenches all over his farm, took forever, cost a ton, and totally messed up the look of his farm. I know it will grow back over, but if you can lay water pipe without having to trench that would be awesome. Where can I get info on this? I'm going to have to have more water on my farm and the NRCS & County Extension Service will no longer pay for ponds.

I'll have to check into the culvert thing, I'm not a visionary and am not sure I get how you are using them. Any chance you can post a picture?

Thanks.

 

[bindian]

Well, first, welcome to TBN, land of many opinions freely expressed

Now... here in Texas, if you're messing with cow brutes, you're a rancher, not a farmer

But since you're messing with longhorns, you're more into pretty critters than beef critters. I suspect you are going the purebred route where pretty truly does count more than anything else. I understand that very well since I mess with purebred beefmasters.

Now, I think the most important thing is a philosophy for your cattle raising...I can only give you mine and you'll have to determine for yourself which to adopt and which to adapt.

1) Every animal must be gentle... if you can't get them in the pen you can't sell them or if you get hurt it costs money. You don't want to pet them but they should follow you when you have a feed bucket right into the pens and stand quietly.
2) fertility matters. If your cows don't get bred to calve at 24 months or your bulls miss breeding a cow, you have less to sell than you should have.
3) hardiness is important... if you are always calling the vet to calve a cow or fix a lazy prepuce or save a weak calf or otherwise perform expensive acts.. it costs more than it pays. Keep the animal, the breed suffers.
4) milking ability and mothering ability is required for a cow to raise a good heavy weaning calf. If she ignores it, refuses to mother it or is a light milker, you should find a place for her at the auction barn.
5) Weight gain on natural forage is key, measured by an actual scale, no guesses. Anybody can get a cow/calf fat with expensive grain. What you sell is either actual pounds, or the promise of pounds when selling an animal as purebred.
6) Conformation is sadly often misunderstood. Bad legs, wry nose, deformities, etc. clearly disqualify an animal to stay in the herd. Beyond that, little matters except items 1-5. Function dictates form. Nevertheless, the eye of man too often looks at a cow brute and influences about 75% of its value (purebred speaking) at auctions not ruled by scales.

I suspect that you recognize the above items as the "six essentials" that Beefmasters are founded on. I know you will find that longhorns share many of these same qualities and are historically strong in fertility, hardiness, longevity, calving ease, mothering ability, etc.

Since my operation is of similar size, here is my considered opinion for your operation... you need:

squeeze chute: you must be able to handle the animals without hurting them or yourselves.. an early must have purchase. A roundabout pen and long chute is invaluable when moving animals into the squeeze and headgate.

feed trough in pens.

roping rope... there are times when you have to use it

bull nose pliars... amazing tool can be used to control the heads of calves and fully grown animals... I think this is a critical implement for you.

calving chains.. you hope you won't need them, but you will, someday, if for no other reason that a calf is upside down and backwards and a leg is back.

battery headlight.. leaves the hands free... you will do lots of stuff at night.

a pair of small radios for communications..one for you, one for the house or whoever is assisting you... much better than shouting... safety item as well. Ranching is dangerous, be prepared.

Regarding equipment, I'm extremely pleased with what I have... see my signature. I don't need another tractor. Implements well worth more than the $$ include:
FEL WITH CHAIN HOOKS
CARRY ALL WITH CHAIN HOOKS
SPRAY RIG FOR HERBICIDES AND INSECTICIDES
LIGHTS ON REAR OF TRACTOR
HAY SPIKE FOR FEL, HAY FORK FOR 3PH (AND ROUND BALE RINGS)
LOW FLATBED TRAILER, 18', CARRIES STUFF, FRONT WENCH, RAMPS
GENERATOR.. ELECTRICITY WHERE AND WHEN YOU NEED IT

If you wish additional details or expanded info, PM me.

Hmm... posted, then saw your further discussion of objectives, etc... grass fed, local market, great idea and I think you're going the right direction IMHO.

Love your signature... and I well understand it!

Yep, I was always taught if you plant crops for sale and profit, your a farmer. If it your raise it and it has four legs, your a rancher. But farmers can ranch and ranchers can farm. At least that is what my Grandpa and Uncle did.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Spiveyman]

Reading about your land, you will want to research here on TBN about how to lay pipe underground...just by pulling it into the ground with a "subsoiler".. this is another extremely high benefit tool.. a must have.. you will use it to both pull insulated wire under gates AND to pull plastic (PVC or black plastic roll) pipe under ground without having to do a trench first... wish I had discovered this method much earlier!

This is what I was talking about with the trenches. That's me on the horse on my buddy's ranch. That trench runs down, to the right, and all the way up that hill in the background. And that's one of about 8 they installed!!!