Thinking about adding some solar power

[techman]

I have a 9200 watt grid tie system. My last bill was $ 26, but it was high due to the 4th of July where we had a lot of people over, days of power washing prior (electric unit) and a lot of stove/oven cooking. My June bill was $ 5.75. So far in 10 months my savings have been $ 1600. No complaints at all. The costs today have dropped quite a bit with panels near $ 1/watt for name brand.

paul

 

[lockhaven]

do any of you have a link or knowledge to explain the buy back of surplus electric. i am under the impression that in Maryland they will only pay you up to your bill so you will never get a check just a zero bill, also i heard that the rate they pay is reduced from what they pay commercial suppliers.

 

[Alien]

I know in Australia, every state is different and every energy company is different as well. You would have to enquire from your supplier. I have a 4Kwh system. State Gov pays 46 cents and the supplier pays 4c on top making it 50 c per Kwh for everything we send back to them. We are locked in for 16 years but others coming on line now get sweet all.
Normal charge for what we use is 23c and cheaper at night-time.

 

[Alien]

Just found the SMA backup for solar. Only requires a small battery system. Couldn't find the price though. The SMA is German design and available worldwide. I have their 4 KWh inverter. SUNNY BACKUP-System M / L / XL. SMA Australia Pty Ltd
This is exactly what I was looking for myself.

 

[zonta223]

Yea, I wouldn't do a solar install if I were planning to move. Like you say, most people would view that as a negative selling point, not a positive. You could still grab a GTI and one or more panels. no modifications needed to the house and you can easily unplug them and take them with you, or sell them, when you move. It'll get your feet wet with solar so that you'll have a better idea if you want to go full solar at your next house. And it may cut your power bill by a bit between now and then.

Keith

Here we find just the opposite is true. Houses with established grid tied systems bring a premium. If you had the choice of 2 identical houses one with solar and one without you would be crazy to choose the non solar one.....You are guaranteed cheaper electricity and higher resale value

 

[Alien]

Here we find just the opposite is true. Houses with established grid tied systems bring a premium. If you had the choice of 2 identical houses one with solar and one without you would be crazy to choose the non solar one.....You are guaranteed cheaper electricity and higher resale value

I would have to agree zonta. For instance, if someone takes a mortgage out to buy my place, it is nice to know that there are no water charges, (own bore) and probably no power bills. My only quarterly is my phone bill and council rates. (less than $1000 per year) I wouldn't be without solar now. (unless of course free energy arrives) (I won't comment further on that one no matter how much I am baited)

 

[KTurner]

Here we find just the opposite is true. Houses with established grid tied systems bring a premium. If you had the choice of 2 identical houses one with solar and one without you would be crazy to choose the non solar one.....You are guaranteed cheaper electricity and higher resale value

Solar just isn't widely used around here. There are about 400 houses for sale in my area right now, not a single one shows up when I add 'solar' to the search. I've lived in this area for 26 years and I've only seen one single house with solar panels installed. I'm sure there are more, but that's the only one you see while driving around. Because of the low number, I'd think most people would view it as an unknown, a potential source for costly repairs requiring specialized expertise if something goes wrong. Electricity at $.11/kwh is just too convenient, you don't even see people using clotheslines. Of course, rampant home owners associations tend to have rules against clotheslines. As rates continue to rise and solar prices continue to drop, I expect to see more installs in the area.

Keith

 

[dmccarty]

For state and Federal solar power subsidies check out DSIRE: DSIRE Home Database of Energy Efficiency, Renewable Energy and Solar Incentives, Rebates and Programs and Policy. You also should check with our local power company to see if they have any programs.

There are other threads on TBN that have covered the cost of solar and it ain't cheap. My house uses an average of 41 KWH a day. That does not include heating because we heat with wood.

If we put up a 5,000 watt system on the roof at $5 a watt that is $25,000. I think the cheapest I have seen for installed systems in my area is $7 a watt for grid tie so no batteries. The batteries I have seen were very expensive and would have to be replaced at some point for even more money.

So a 5,000 watt system is around $25,000. In my area we get five hours of sunlight that is good for power production. I don't really understand why we would not get at least some power during the rest of the day but that is what the charts state. Thus our 5KW system will produce 25KWH per day for $25K however the house is using 41KWH. According to an article I read in Home Power magazine, 40% of the power generated at the panels is lost by the time it gets to the outlet. That seems VERY high to me but that is what the article stated. IF that loss rate is correct, the 25KWH system is only providing 15KWH a day or about 40% of our average needs. Of course if it is cloudy, which it frequently is around here, we would get less.

The subsidies in the link can be very high in my state. The power company can be helpful as well. The state and Federal subsidies can pay for 65% of the installed cost. That sound like a great deal and it kinda sorta is but here is a catch. The NC subsidy is limited to half of what you pay in state taxes. So if NC would pay 30% of the theoretical $25,0000 installation bill I would bet a subsidy of $7,500. But to get the $7,500 you would have to pay $15,000 in state taxes! You can get the subsidy paid for over subsequent tax years until you get the full $7,500 back. If you pay $5,000 a year in NC taxes you could get $2,500 back each year, over three years, to finally get the full $7,500 back.

Even with the tax subsidy one would have to foot the solar power installation of $25,000 until the first part of the next year to receive the tax money. But even then it will take years to get the full subsidy. I don't have $25,000 to install a solar power system. From the research I have done the system we would want/need is going to cost more than $25,000 which makes it even worse. It is nice to say how much one saves with solar, but the question really should be, how much did it cost you to save?

I would love to have a solar power system but the installation price is going to have to drop dramatically to makes money sense AND to be able to afford the system.

Later,
Dan

 

[techman]

For state and Federal solar power subsidies check out DSIRE: DSIRE Home Database of Energy Efficiency, Renewable Energy and Solar Incentives, Rebates and Programs and Policy.
My house uses an average of 41 KWH a day.
If we put up a 5,000 watt system on the roof at $5 a watt that is $25,000.

So a 5,000 watt system is around $25,000. In my area we get five hours of sunlight that is good for power production.
Thus our 5KW system will produce 25KWH per day for $25K however the house is using 41KWH. According to an article I read in Home Power magazine, 40% of the power generated at the panels is lost by the time it gets to the outlet. That seems VERY high to me but that is what the article stated. IF that loss rate is correct, the 25KWH system is only providing 15KWH a day or about 40% of our average needs. Of course if it is cloudy, which it frequently is around here, we would get less.


Dan

Dan:

To start off, you will spend some coin, and the grid tie is the best overall choice if you are not fixated on being "off grid". You will get more than 5 hours of production in a day. It is like a bell curve. I get 12 hours of production a day, with the peak in the early afternoon. With a 5 KW system, 25 KWH per day is on the best days. Figure 15-20 KWH on good days, and as low as 1 KWH on a heavy overcast. As far as the losses, the 40% is bogus. I get an overall of about 85% of the panel rating on peak output times. There is the panel efficiency, but that is already factored into the watt rating. The inverter is about 95% at best, and other losses are due to wiring, dirt on the panels, high panel temps, etc.

As far as subsidies, there is a 30% federal income tax credit plus whatever the state and utility gives you. I got $ 0.75/watt from PA, but unfortunately that money is no longer there. Check with your state. My system was $ 30K, of which I was subsidized $ 20K. At about $ 1700/yr savings, about a 6 year payback. Both my panels and inverter have 25 year warranties.

As for the power, in PA it is net metering, so any excess goes in a bank, and can be used in later months. If you are surplus at the end of the year, they will pay you back each year.

Paul

 

[boggen]

what i truly do not understand, is shingling a roof and then install a solar panel system on top of the shingles. i truely do not understand why not just remove shingles, from the equation. and put solar panels directly down on the plywood sheeting. and use the solar panels as a way to let rain off the roof and out of the house and at same time get solar power.

myself i am more for a tie into grid system. vs going completely off grid. when you are out at work the entire day, and no one is home, the sun is out and sending power to the grid. then when you get home, you begin turning on lights, fans, etc... and you could easily use more electricity than what could be generated.

being off grid completely, means once you use up the electricity, saved up in the batteries, you are dead as a door nail till next day or 2 for things to be charged back up. plus routine checks of batteries to make sure they are holding a charge and being fully charged up. batteries do go bad.