Third function Electric hydraulic valve Open? or Closed? Center

[JRL1964]

Hello first allow me to apologise as Im sure this question has been asked before. I have been searching for an answer for about a week now.
I want to put a third function on my JD4310 eHydro it has a 430 loader.
Im trying to figure out what solenoid vave I need for the setup. Does it need to be an open or closed center. I have seen it called a number of things and I cant get a stright answer.
I am planing on putting a grappel on the loader bucket so i would like it to continue to grip the load untill I open it again.
Thanks in advance for any help or advice anyone can give me.
JR

 

[MtnViewRanch]

You have an open center hydraulic system on your JD 4310. So you need an open center 3rd function valve.

 

[JRL1964]

Brian thanks for the quick responce some of them are called Free spooling? Is that the same as an open vave? Or somthing entirely different?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Brian thanks for the quick responce some of them are called Free spooling? Is that the same as an open vave? Or somthing entirely different?

A free spooling valve is typically used for only hydraulic motors. It can be used as a fluid source for an implement that has it's own control valve such as a log splitter as an example. But it WILL NOT HOLD a cylinder in place.

Before you order the valve, call and tell them what you are doing, they should get you the correct unit for your application. I personally use these guys.

 

[JRL1964]

Thanks for the Help, but if I may? I would like to ask one more question ..sorry.. what is a Tandem Center? I read a post from somewhere that says Surplus Center calls their Valves open center but they are really Tandom center??? Is there a difference between the two or is it just the terms are interchangeable??? Also the Trausch site you selected offers both open and Tandom center???? In a DO3 valve.. sorry for all the questions I'm pretty new at this Hydraulic Terminology...

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Thanks for the Help, but if I may? I would like to ask one more question ..sorry.. what is a Tandem Center? I read a post from somewhere that says Surplus Center calls their Valves open center but they are really Tandom center??? Is there a difference between the two or is it just the terms are interchangeable??? Also the Trausch site you selected offers both open and Tandom center???? In a DO3 valve.. sorry for all the questions I'm pretty new at this Hydraulic Terminology...

That's why I said to call them, they can get you what you need.

 

[oldnslo]

For D03 style valves tandem center has pressure & tank connected with the A & B work ports blocked.

Open center has all of the ports connected.

Note: this is in the center position of the valve.

 

[N2DFire]

The one I used when I built mine is a D03 hydraulic solenoid valve 4 way 3 position, P open to Tank with ports A & B blocked 12 VOLT DC
that I got from fremontindustrialsupply.com - the SKU then was: HD-3C6-G02-LW-F-DC12* but I looked that up and the number has changed.

Now to take a step back since you are (self admittedly) new to hydraulic terms.

There are two primary means of accomplishing a 3rd function for a grapple

Option 1
A Diverter valve - which uses a single momentary On/Off push button control along with an existing loader function (typical the bucket curl / dump function) to operate the grapple lid. Button off - the loader control stick works as normal, button on - the curl/dump motions now cause the grapple lid to open / close INSTEAD of curling/dumping.

PRO's - simpler to install, less cost (in general)
CON's - Cannot curl/dump grapple AND open/close at the same time. ** More on this later

Option 2 (Which sounds like what you're asking about)
A "3rd Function" solenoid valve - this set-up uses two momentary on/off buttons to control the open/close function of the grapple independently of the other functions **
PRO's - Allows independant operation of all three loader / grapple functions **
CON's - more costly and slightly more complex plumbing


** Now for the "fine print" - On most Sub Compact & Compact tractors the hydraulic systems has all of the various functions connected in series and the first function in the series to "ask" for flow will get it and little to none remains for the remaining functions down stream. The hydraulic system output (flow) on these models is not sufficient to operate multiple functions at the same time.

For a demonstration / test - raise your loader up, dump the bucket and then try to lower it & curl back at the same time. Generally speaking the loader will drop but the bucket won't curl back unless you're feathering things very gently.

So simply using a 3rd function solenoid does not mean you will be able to actually operate multiple functions at once. I opted to go ahead with the solenoid instead of a diverter because the way the controls function just feels more natural to me and plus between feathering the control and making several small adjustments at a time - I can get close enough to open/close and curl/dump movement at the same time.


Not trying to confuse you further, just want to make sure you are getting what you want for your money and it performs like you think it will.

I have attached the write-up I did of my 3rd function build. Different brand tractor - same basic concepts. Might give you a little more insight into what you're looking at.

Best of luck with your project. Don't be intimidated by it - there's plenty of help here to get you through it. Just take your time and plan it all out before you start.

 

[JRL1964]

Thank you to everyone for the advice. Steve your correct I was trying to accomplish Option 2 as you described. I tried the bucket trick as you suggested I didn't seem to have any problems. From what I think (loosely used) I have determined my 4310 already has a the ports for the third function on the block just no real way to control it unless you buy a JD kit for with front or rear connections. The JD kit uses a lever to open and close the valve mounted on the right side next to the 3 point control. I think that would be fine for a hydraulic top link, but is kind of a pain for a grapple, you would have to remove your hand from the control to open and close the grapple or grow a third arm.. now I'm really trying to complicate things in the fact of why I can't just fab a mount for a electric actuator to open and close the existng valve.. Guess I need to do a little more research before I go crazy and spend a bunch of money. But I really appreciate all the help. Hope y'all have a good one and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone..JR