Those #+%^ engineers!

[paulsharvey]

A lot of the repairs being kinda crazy, is what components and groups of components are installed first at factory. Everything that goes on, can come off, but it certainly takes time/money/effort.

The sealed components, honestly, they probably have fewer engine failures with "lifetime" oil in a lawn mower (homeowner grade), then when it had a drain plug to vibrate loose, threads to leak, ect. Kinda like sealed u-joints; on average, they last way longer than greaseable, cause nobody is greasing them anyways.

 

[jjeff]

Any u joint I replace usually has to be special ordered cuz I insist on greaseable u joints. Never once had a greaseable u joint fail. Like you said though nobody greased them except for a few folks like me. Iwas happy to see GMC still had greaseable ball joints and tye rods til at least 2018. Unsure on my new 2026 1/2 ton though. It doesn't even have a transmission dipstick unfortunately.

 

[otlski]

Having worked as an engineer in a defense industry, I know something about this. The problem wasn't the design, it was the inflexible standards and the procurement process. If an item needed 4 bolts we had to require full material certification and traceability. Eventually we made some progress in being able to buy larger quantities to maintain in stock but many things are one of a kind.

Just retired from 40 plus years in the defense industry - also making many one of a kind type things.

What KennyG has posted is the tip of the iceberg so to speak. Kenny mentioned just one of perhaps several hundred mandatory requirements added on over the past decades. These requirements permeate not just the supply chain, but quality, HR, facility, IT (especially), security, export, all aspects of manufacturing. Every function, every department, each have ten to twenty boilerplate provisions embedded into military contracts. Many have been for the good, many have absolutely no value to the product or process; all of them add to the cost of doing business.

Companies that can navigate and comply have a decided advantage over those that might have to take exceptions. These successful companies in turn, charge not just to cover the increased cost of doing business, but also for being the ones who can comply.

The high cost of these military goods are mainly the government's fault for enabling it to happen.

 

[IH3444]

 

[EscapedSuburbia]

Any u joint I replace usually has to be special ordered cuz I insist on greaseable u joints. Never once had a greaseable u joint fail. Like you said though nobody greased them except for a few folks like me. Iwas happy to see GMC still had greaseable ball joints and tye rods til at least 2018. Unsure on my new 2026 1/2 ton though. It doesn't even have a transmission dipstick unfortunately.

I've had several trucks and SUVs with non-greaseable u-joints, ball joints, and tie rod ends. I kept each of them for a bit over 200K miles and never had any of those components wear out. I was skeptical when I got my first truck without grease zerks but they've all been fine.

 

[NUTTERDW]

DFM - Design For Manufacturing

Blame the bean counters running things and pushing for the absolute lowest manufacturing costs

View attachment 4579563

To change a headlamp in my Ford F350 you have remove the grill.

 

[NUTTERDW]

I've had several trucks and SUVs with non-greaseable u-joints, ball joints, and tie rod ends. I kept each of them for a bit over 200K miles and never had any of those components wear out. I was skeptical when I got my first truck without grease zerks but they've all been fine.

On the other side of that I have a Ford F350 that I had to replace the entire front drive shaft at75 thousand miles because the u joints were shot. It had a constant velocity joint and a regular u-joint and I could replace the entire shaft cheaper than paying someone to replace the joints.

 

[deserteagle71]

On the other side of that I have a Ford F350 that I had to replace the entire front drive shaft at75 thousand miles because the u joints were shot. It had a constant velocity joint and a regular u-joint and I could replace the entire shaft cheaper than paying someone to replace the joints.

WHY???
Sounds to me like the front drivetrain had to be always turning to wear out the front end components. Far as I know all heavy duty Ford pickups have locking hubs on them. Were the ones on your truck always locked in?

Just curious. I'm old and have driven 4x4 vehicles all my life - some with hundreds of thousands of miles on them and I NEVER had to replace front driveline u joints because the vehicle was rarely in 4x4.

 

[KennyG]

Properly designed permanently lubed U-joints will last a long time. I had 4WD Dakota that had the rear U-joint fail at about 50K. They apparently didn't adjust the differential angle for the higher suspension so the joint ran at too high an angle. The replacement greasable joint lasted well.

 

[dadohead]

I was one of those pinhead tractor engineers for 30 years 8<) Here are some points to ponder:

• The MBA's coming out of universities today (that are running these companies) are all taught the same thing: "EVERYTHING is an appliance"
• Build it to last 10 years (Marketing gives you the life goals/model)
• The "new" model should solve all the old assembly line, dealer, and customer problems while lowering costs
• "Here's the launch date... don't miss it!"

Cost, quality, and schedule are your guiding principles. Every group starts at the same time: powertrain, structures, electrical, hydraulics, cab, attachments, manufacturing (methods), field service, etc... all working on the same shared computer model.

It's like 10 of us are all standing around a clean sheet of paper with Sharpies and then asked to draw a tractor at the same time. Alot of it is space claims... "Hey! I need that spot for the battery!" "Sorry, changing the air management on this for better cooling." "Yeah... we'll see about that!" After some months when things are shaking out, Field Service isn't too upset about servicing that one thing IF you're solving 3 old problems.

Dumb things sometimes happen... can't deny. Please know what comes out at the end is a team thing.... a compromise. At least it should be.

 

[WinterDeere]

To change a headlamp in my Ford F350 you have remove the grill.

That'd be bad if it were still running 1970's style sealed beam headlights. But it's been literally 30+ years since I've experienced a headlight failure on any vehicle I've owned. I wouldn't care if you told me you have to remove the whole front clip to change the headlight on any of my newer cars, they just don't fail inside of my ownership period, anymore.

 

[Oaktree]

Properly designed permanently lubed U-joints will last a long time. I had 4WD Dakota that had the rear U-joint fail at about 50K. They apparently didn't adjust the differential angle for the higher suspension so the joint ran at too high an angle. The replacement greasable joint lasted well.

Don't get Jstpssng going on that. Apparently, he couldn't keep U joints in his.
I'm with you though, had 2 Dakotas, both with well over 150k, and neither ever needed U joints.

That'd be bad if it were still running 1970's style sealed beam headlights. But it's been literally 30+ years since I've experienced a headlight failure on any vehicle I've owned. I wouldn't care if you told me you have to remove the whole front clip to change the headlight on any of my newer cars, they just don't fail inside of my ownership period, anymore.

I dunno about that. I sure see a lot of vehicles on the road with one headlight out.

 

[grsthegreat]

Ive replaced lots of headlights over the years. I don’t, and won’t have led headlights, just halogen. They last a long time, but do go out. And I absolutely detest HID night blinders

 

[DarkBlack]

That'd be bad if it were still running 1970's style sealed beam headlights. But it's been literally 30+ years since I've experienced a headlight failure on any vehicle I've owned. I wouldn't care if you told me you have to remove the whole front clip to change the headlight on any of my newer cars, they just don't fail inside of my ownership period, anymore.

The headlight assemblies certainly fail.
I just did a not too old Ram and a Toyota truck. One for yellowing, hazyness that couldn’t be polished out, the other for a failed internal plastic gearbox aiming mechanism.
Both vehicles required taking off the front grill, and also going through the inner fender wells

 

[Jstpssng]

Don't get Jstpssng going on that. Apparently, he couldn't keep U joints in his.

That's because they weren't getting greased properly until I started doing them myself. I had to pack them the way that you do a wheel bearing. Sealed u-joints would have been better.

 

[dadohead]

That's because they weren't getting greased properly until I started doing them myself. I had to pack them the way that you do a wheel bearing. Sealed u-joints would have been better.

Universities have steered engineers and the MBA's (who run the companies) to the 'perfect design' concept. The theory is to follow the human body: set a life goal and design every component to hit that goal with minimal maintenance. At end of life our joints hurt, eyes stink, can't hear, and just miserable to be around ;<)

Unfortunately, the MBA's also direct that EVERYTHING is an appliance that should last 10 years... and start to fail. In testing, units get through with few U-joint and headlight failures. They know most will trade before that point. Yeah, I dont like it either.

 

[not2old]

WHY???
Sounds to me like the front drivetrain had to be always turning to wear out the front end components. Far as I know all heavy duty Ford pickups have locking hubs on them. Were the ones on your truck always locked in?

Just curious. I'm old and have driven 4x4 vehicles all my life - some with hundreds of thousands of miles on them and I NEVER had to replace front driveline u joints because the vehicle was rarely in 4x4.

I recently replaced the outer u-joints on the front of my 1990 F250 for the fourth time at 446,000 km (near 380,000 miles) The first time, I needed a cutting torch to get them out. The next three times, the needle bearings fell out of some cups before I pressed them out. I could tell they needed work as I could feel them binding while turning in a parking lot. I've only replaced the centre joint once.

 

[Jstpssng]

At 14,000 miles my father had replaced both front axles and all bearings in his 1975 Power Wagon... at his own expense. "I'm not going to take it apart and put it back together with old parts".
He then took it down and traded it. It only had a 12,000 mile warranty. Imagine that now!

 

[jjeff]

I've had several trucks and SUVs with non-greaseable u-joints, ball joints, and tie rod ends. I kept each of them for a bit over 200K miles and never had any of those components wear out. I was skeptical when I got my first truck without grease zerks but they've all been fine.

Good for you, if you've ever ripped the dust boot around it
the only way to still keep ball joints etc serviceable is if you grease them especially after a harder use on them. I've never replaced greaseable ball joints ripped dust boots or not. I pm most of my stuff anyway. I'll stubbornly support what's worked for me for years.

 

[WinterDeere]

Ive replaced lots of headlights over the years.

Old technology, sure. Me too.

I don’t, and won’t have led headlights, just halogen.

Why? Where does that stubbornness end? Will you only watch CRT's, and not flat screens? Only use a 56kbps modem instead of broadband? Only use an ice box instead of a refrigerator?

I absolutely detest HID night blinders

... says everyone who's never driven them in deer country! One time, and I was hooked. I won't even consider buying a car without them, if it's an available option. Friggin' daylight at midnight.

It only had a 12,000 mile warranty. Imagine that now!

I'd buy a new car with a 12k mile warranty, if they could get the average new vehicle purchase price back down to 16 - 20 weeks of median household income, like it was in the early 1970's. Heck, even as late as 2019, we were holding at 32 - 36 weeks of median income.

What is it today... 40 weeks? That's 2x to 2.5x more than 1971!

The trade-off, is they do legimately last more than twice as long as old cars did, and with a lot less maintenance in getting them there.