Thoughts on Conservation Easement?

[ultrarunner]

Received a cold call the other day from some Land Trust organization regarding land I own next to my home...

For anyone following my other thread on the land owned in my family... this is 100% separate and only owned by me.

Fellow left a message saying he needed to talk to me about preservation. I called and left a message for him.

Sounds like it is more potential trouble than it's worth... like most, I'm a good steward and don't care for intrusion on my land.

County keeps raising my assessment... they say it is buildable and is being taxes as such.

It is heavily wooded with a stream that sees a few wild salmon each year and I think this is why the interest...

Anyone with experience with Land Trusts?

 

[brin]

Be sure to read it carefully and even have an attorney check it for you...fine print...Land trusts usually restrict you forever from doing almost anything with your property and it is in your deed as a covenant as I understand land trusts so that when you sell it and who knows what you will want to do in the future, you have to consider how saleable it is to a prospective purchaser that may want to develope it...it could end up really destroying the future value of your property. I always like to keep my options open.

 

[sweettractors]

For the last 10 years or so the Nature Conservancy has been buying land in this area. They concentrate on areas with trees, wetlands and running water through the land acreage. I own land that adjoins them.
If you are looking for a monetary reason for owning this wooded land, The value of each acre of woods in "carbon credits" they could sell will be phenomenal. Some oil billionaire bought 3 million acres of the rain forest and is selling the credits off that to people like Al Gore that fly around in their private jets. Ken Sweet

 

[grnspot110]

ultrarunner, RUN!!! As fast as you can away from any Land Trust or "Conservation Easement". Once signed, the "owner" will have virtually no rights to the property, except to pay taxes on it! ~~ grnspot110

 

[forgeblast]

Crep may be more benifit to you, its 15 years to 10 years and you get paid to plant trees and reforest it, or create a habitat. Some of the conservation easements go into effect in your will, and some do allow you to stop paying taxes on it.
Here we have clean-N-Green, which means that if you have over 10 acres and its wooded you dont pay taxes on it, you only pay for the improved/house/barn areas.

 

[Dmace]

ultrarunner, RUN!!! As fast as you can away from any Land Trust or "Conservation Easement". Once signed, the "owner" will have virtually no rights to the property, except to pay taxes on it! ~~ grnspot110

The only "right" you lose is the ability to build on the land. You can still clear paths, cut trees, maintain trails, hunt, etc... You just cannot build any structures on it. Also your taxes are MUCH cheaper since the land is placed "in current use".

I did this with a few small parcels and got $9k per acre for parcels under 15 acres and $6k per acre for parcels over 15 acres. The land had to be at least 50% "wetlands", this does not mean standing water either poorly drained soils are considered just as "wet" as standing water. If you have good buildable land then it's not worth it but most of these parcels are barely buildable with the wetland setbacks around here so this is a perfect deal to make money and keep your land. It includes a free land survey too! :thumbsup:

 

[Reverend Blair]

Read the fine print and carefully consider the future. Land trusts definitely aren't for everybody, but some people do really well with them. Complicating that is the matter of them varying widely from place to place.

I do some work for a man who put half his property (a quarter section), with the exception of about six acres of yard, into trust and loves it. He's been paid to plant long grass prairie and trees. He can still cut trees for firewood. He can still ride his horses through there.

When his kid inherits the place, she'll love it too.

It was the right deal for him.

Other trusts are a lot more restrictive though, and many have requirements but give little back in return.

 

[piller]

I've seen several news stories about local properties going into conservation trusts, they all say that the land will be protected forever. I always wonder however what will happen in the future when the local government decides they want to build a road through the property, or put a school on the property, or maybe a waste treatment plant, or condemn the property so that they can increase the tax base, or whatever.

I've seen situations where developers wanted a prime piece of protected land and worked a deal to trade a poor piece of land in order to get and develop the prime land.

A local land grant university recently developed a prime piece of river front pasture that had been donated to the university a long time ago with the stipulation that it not be developed and that it be used for the schools agricultural program. The temptation to develop the property proved too great for the university, the news coverage kept reporting about the number of new jobs and the high tech research that would be performed and how wonderful it all would be for the university and the community.

 

[SPYDERLK]

My land is under conservation easement with VA Outdoors Foundation. In the agreement I reserved the right to split it into up to 3 parcels with 2 houses and farm necessary buildings on each. The land drops in value when you do this and you pay lower taxes. A portion of the drop is given to you as credits you can use for your state income taxes and/or sell at a discount to other Va taxpayers to use to pay their taxes. If there are any Virginia readers interested in a 25% tax discount pls PM me soon. Its pretty easy. There is time for 2010 tax if you move now.
Larry

 

[ultrarunner]

There have been a couple of news stories about a large hay farmer that was paid millions to for his development rights and he still retained 4 building sites for his children... of course he had lots of acreage.

I've got 10 that was zoned for 2 homes when I bought it 6 years ago and now it has been reduced to 1 due to the counties new zoning.

They have the right to inspect any property in conservation.

I looked for many years before I settled on this home because I was able to buy the adjacent 10 acre parcel.

 

[jinjimbob]

Look into making it forest land zoned, most of our land is zoned that way. Taxes are 95% cheaper, its the only way most of us could afford to live on nice forest land, its a win win for everyone and nature.

 

[ultrarunner]

Look into making it forest land zoned, most of our land is zoned that way. Taxes are 95% cheaper, its the only way most of us could afford to live on nice forest land, its a win win for everyone and nature.

It is an option with a forestry plan... and you may be able to convert back by repaying all the savings plus interest if you build.

 

[jinjimbob]

It is an option with a forestry plan... and you may be able to convert back by repaying all the savings plus interest if you build.

Yep, I Think you can give 7 years notice and then you pay no back taxes. You can also take sections of it out of forestry, we have 1.5 acres taken out.

 

[ultrarunner]

They sound serious and urgent... which raises a Red Flag... at least to me.

I say serious because they offered to fly down to meet me and urgent because the "Deal" has to be completed by December 31 or funding expires... it is about preserving watershed for Salmon Habitat.

What would Eddie Walker do?

 

[IslandTractor]

ultrarunner, RUN!!! As fast as you can away from any Land Trust or "Conservation Easement". Once signed, the "owner" will have virtually no rights to the property, except to pay taxes on it! ~~ grnspot110

This is flat out wrong. Conservation easements can spell out specific rights that remain with the owner including the right to build (always carefully limited to one or a few homes; no subdivisions etc) and of course to maintain the land. There is not a one size fits all conservation easement so the details of any particular deal are critical. You can certainly save considerable money on taxes and in some cases be paid cash for an easement. One family who own a large tract of land near where I have a home signed an easement that got them over a hundred thousand bucks and the right for each of the kids to build a home in the future. About all you clearly sign away is the ability to build a shopping mall or subdivision but again the specifics of each easement determine exactly what.

 

[sweettractors]

This is flat out wrong. Conservation easements can spell out specific rights that remain with the owner including the right to build (always carefully limited to one or a few homes; no subdivisions etc) and of course to maintain the land. There is not a one size fits all conservation easement so the details of any particular deal are critical. You can certainly save considerable money on taxes and in some cases be paid cash for an easement. One family who own a large tract of land near where I have a home signed an easement that got them over a hundred thousand bucks and the right for each of the kids to build a home in the future. About all you clearly sign away is the ability to build a shopping mall or subdivision but again the specifics of each easement determine exactly what.

In a Conservation easement, who keeps the future carbon credits from the woodlands? Ken Sweet

 

[Larry Caldwell]

They sound serious and urgent... which raises a Red Flag... at least to me.

I say serious because they offered to fly down to meet me and urgent because the "Deal" has to be completed by December 31 or funding expires... it is about preserving watershed for Salmon Habitat.

What would Eddie Walker do?

It's probably the truth that their funds will be gone soon. I doubt the deal will be available in 2011.

The best thing you can do is meet with them and see what they have to offer, then make the decision based on what you want. A Conservation Easement will keep your land from turning into more ticky tacky housing developments that will turn into monster slums some day. OTOH, when you are old and need the money, you might be able to sell the land to a developer for enough money to park your butt in a home with hot and cold running nurses.

The base support for Conservation Easements come from people who want farm land to remain farm land.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

For the last 10 years or so the Nature Conservancy has been buying land in this area. They concentrate on areas with trees, wetlands and running water through the land acreage. I own land that adjoins them.

The Nature Conservancy is a great organization. It is run by real conservationists, no air headed tree huggers. They maintain their property for species habitat, both plant and animal. If that means it needs to be logged, they log it. They graze cattle on thousands of acres of Eastern Oregon range land, because it is range land and there is a shortage of buffalo.

If you are looking for a monetary reason for owning this wooded land, The value of each acre of woods in "carbon credits" they could sell will be phenomenal. Some oil billionaire bought 3 million acres of the rain forest and is selling the credits off that to people like Al Gore that fly around in their private jets. Ken Sweet

The Oregon Small Woodlands Association is creating a carbon pool that will put together enough forest to trade on the exchange, if there ever is one. As usual, small property owners will be frozen out of the big bucks unless they organize. However, carbon credits are a part of Cap and Trade, which everyone knows is nothing but a scam, floated because Obama was too gutless to mention Carbon Tax. It's a stupid idea, that couldn't get traction even with the Democrats in charge of both chambers of Congress. With the Republicans in control of the house, there is no chance of it becoming law any time in the near future.

Meanwhile, Conservation Easements, as practiced in Washington, only restrict the property from development. If he wants to raise timber or farm it, he can keep right on doing that.

 

[rekees4300]

They sound serious and urgent... which raises a Red Flag... at least to me.

I say serious because they offered to fly down to meet me and urgent because the "Deal" has to be completed by December 31 or funding expires... it is about preserving watershed for Salmon Habitat.

What would Eddie Walker do?

Preserving salmon habitat is a noble cause but you are prudent to see red flags based on the circumstances so far. I don't know what Eddie Walker would do but rekees4300 would at a minimum do my due diligence and investigate these people offering the deal. Check with your state's Attorney General office and Better Business Bureau. Check with the police to see if these folks have criminal records. Of course, BEFORE signing anything I'd get a hardcopy (not verbal) of the deal and show it to an attorney.

I'd also ask for a list of references for other deals they have done then call those people. If they wont give references that would be another BIG red flag and you should tell them to take a hike.

The Nature Conservancy in Washington - Wild Pacific Salmon in Washington

 

[sweettractors]

The Nature Conservancy is a great organization. It is run by real conservationists, no air headed tree huggers. They maintain their property for species habitat, both plant and animal. If that means it needs to be logged, they log it. They graze cattle on thousands of acres of Eastern Oregon range land, because it is range land and there is a shortage of buffalo.



The Oregon Small Woodlands Association is creating a carbon pool that will put together enough forest to trade on the exchange, if there ever is one. As usual, small property owners will be frozen out of the big bucks unless they organize. However, carbon credits are a part of Cap and Trade, which everyone knows is nothing but a scam, floated because Obama was too gutless to mention Carbon Tax. It's a stupid idea, that couldn't get traction even with the Democrats in charge of both chambers of Congress. With the Republicans in control of the house, there is no chance of it becoming law any time in the near future.

Meanwhile, Conservation Easements, as practiced in Washington, only restrict the property from development. If he wants to raise timber or farm it, he can keep right on doing that.

I saw a documentary last week on this "carbon credit" thing and I understand there is already a exchange. Like you say, it is only for the big traders currently. I take that back, Now that I am remembering the story, the women in India are gathering fresh cow dung and delivering it to the local utility that dumps it into a big vat and produces methane gas for sale in the community. They said they made more gathering the dung than farming. Ken Sweet