Thoughts on Sexual Harrasment...

[3930dave]

We are drifting from ur's original subject, but I suspect he may agree with the relevance of the broader issues;

1) Abuse of Power.

2) Lack of Accountablity.

This was a big case in Toronto:

Death of Sammy Yatim - Wikipedia

Note though, it was the only successful conviction in the 28 years the SIU has existed here.

No doubt, the person that initiated this incident needed to be dealt with forcefully, but what was particularly damning was the public video. At the time he was shot, there were no other people on the streetcar. Easy to quarterback later, but these old northern streetcars are pretty solid, with small windows - not easy to get out of except by the intended exits.....

Again, easy to say after, but a couple of 1 ton police transport vehicles backed against the streetcar doors to keep them blocked would have contained the situation - the guy that was killed only had a knife.

Who Shall police the Police (or, Doctors, Lawyers.... anybody in authority), has always been a relevant question..... I tend to think that a cell phone video of the incident was a key factor in what happened later....... one of the reasons I question people's cell phones being confiscated in public spaces, when they are not being arrested or charged.....

Rgds, D.

 

[ultrarunner]

No issue taken... some of the most interesting discussion take on a life of their own as they evolve with the next post building on the previous ones...

Plenty of Harassment Issues within the ranks of the local departments here... women often had to prove themselves to be one of the guys and endure hazing... some of the biggest opponents were wives of police officers... they simply didn't like their husbands having female partners...

12 of my High School friends earned 2 year Admin of Justice degrees and then were hired by local departments...

I thought it smarter to earn a 4 year degree because from day one pay is 4% hire with a Bachelor Degree... I also double majored.

The extra time it took to earn my degree the hiring process for Law Enforcement was turned upside down... numerous consent decrees eliminated White Males from eligibility from being hired as cadets...

I tested at several departments and did well... but lacked clarity as to why I was not selected... one Department Chief of Police was kind enough to spell it out in a private meeting... he said he has too many white male officers...said under the consent decree the department is to mirror the population served... and his and other local agencies had to vigorously recruit female and minorities...

What this meant is the department was sending out recruiting teams to Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit, New Orleans... those selected would be paid to attend the academy also at no cost...

I asked the chief what could I do... he said if I paid my way through the academy and graduated at the top of my class he would hire me... saying it would save the city the 60k hard cost per cadet to send to the academy and pay wages while attending...

Call me stubborn, but it didn't set well with me...

There were other nuances... one was a 5 point boost for speaking a foreign language... which I do... when I saw my Oakland score I noticed no credit for second language... inquired and was told German and French do not receive credit as there are no German or French only speaking criminals... no where did the application literature make the distinction.

Another was 5 points for residents of the city... as almost zero officers lived in the city... later I found out this only applied to minority and female applicants...

To bring to a close... no one was more happy than my Grandmother at my not becoming a police officer... she had already lost a son in the line of duty when I was a child... so I decided to let it go.

On the harassment side... I have attended a few private Law Enforcement parties and they were the wildest parties I have ever attended... think Frat House...

 

[airbiscuit]

 

[goeduck]

What this meant is the department was sending out recruiting teams to Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit, New Orleans to recruit minority and female applicants... those selected would be paid to attend the academy at no cost...
.

That type of thing (attend academy at no cost) is what chips me off. Reverse discrimination at taxpayer expense.

 

[RSKY]

My wife and I were checking out at a store in a town about an hours drive away from our home. The girl running the register had worked at the company I retired from. I asked her how she was doing and the three of us, her, myself, and my wife talked for a minute or so. During the conversation she got this sad look on her face and told my wife that, "he didn't like me much". To which I replied that I hadn't cared how many times she shook her **** at me (short girl, VERY well endowed) she still had to do her work.

End of conversation.

Once we were in our car I had to explain to my wife that the girl would stand at other supervisor's desk with a button or two undone giving a good view and the other supervisors would let her stand and talk for a half hour or so. I would tell her to go back to work.

The girl was a stone cold fox.

Too many women think they can show a little skin and too many men enjoy looking at it. They think they can show this skin and get out of work. This leads to other problems and I wouldn't stand for it. Actually had the union steward come to me complaining about my treatment of her and I told him exactly what was going on and HE chewed her out about it.

A couple of the black ladies came to me after the blowup and asked if they could get out of work it they unbuttoned their blouses and stood at my desk. I told them it depended on how far down they unbuttoned them. They thought it was funny that I was resistant to the young girl's charms. Two of them also told me they had talked to the union steward about what was going on. She got no sympathy from them. And I got some loyal and hard working allies.

RSKY

 

[oosik]

I had a situation happen when I worked for a local county health dept. I don't know what you would call it - I've never experienced anything like it before. The largest town in this county has a very strong Hispanic population. I speak NO spanish. So one day I asked one of my clerical staff - a very nice Hispanic woman - if she could accompany me and be an interpreter. It worked out great - I did my inspections and this woman helped explain the results to the owners.

About ten day later I asked if she could again accompany me on some routine inspections. She was very embarrassed and apologetic and said - No, she could not. She explained that on the previous occasion - several of her husbands friends had seen us during the inspections. They had given her husband a very bad time - ridiculing him - saying he could no longer hold on to his woman and that she now liked the Gringo. This could not have been any further from the truth. Fortunately - when I talked to her husband - he completely understood.

I was Director of Environmental Health - doing inspections of restaurants, at that time. So I talked to my equal - the gal who was Director of Nursing. She said that this type of reaction would be what could normally be expected.

You could have knocked me down with a feather. I have NEVER seen this type situation. I WON"T ever see it again - I'm now completely retired.

 

[tcreeley]

61 people shot and killed by police since Jan 1st this year. Do our police need more training? Watch the videos posted on fb. Almost every time I see an officer who looks mad, scared, or out of control - not exactly professional. Then when the suspect is subdued, cuffed, complying - they continue to beat on them. Training, or the wrong people have been hired - makes the police look bad. The joke is now- something goes wrong, don't call the police if you want to live to tell the tale! ..... And the women are the same as the men.

My wife has old stories of the cops grabbing kids in the park who were causing problems - and smacking them around pretty hard - but no arrests.

Are these the bad apples or the ones just under the radar. .... Then you read that the cops in Baltimore and NY planted drugs, and even had toy guns to plant on kids they shot.

What a world. No wonder we have Kevin Spaceys, a Clinton having sex in the oval office, a president with the reputation of groping. What happened to honesty and moral fiber?

 

[ultrarunner]

I had a situation happen when I worked for a local county health dept. I don't know what you would call it - I've never experienced anything like it before. The largest town in this county has a very strong Hispanic population. I speak NO spanish. So one day I asked one of my clerical staff - a very nice Hispanic woman - if she could accompany me and be an interpreter. It worked out great - I did my inspections and this woman helped explain the results to the owners.

About ten day later I asked if she could again accompany me on some routine inspections. She was very embarrassed and apologetic and said - No, she could not. She explained that on the previous occasion - several of her husbands friends had seen us during the inspections. They had given her husband a very bad time - ridiculing him - saying he could no longer hold on to his woman and that she now liked the Gringo. This could not have been any further from the truth. Fortunately - when I talked to her husband - he completely understood.

I was Director of Environmental Health - doing inspections of restaurants, at that time. So I talked to my equal - the gal who was Director of Nursing. She said that this type of reaction would be what could normally be expected.

You could have knocked me down with a feather. I have NEVER seen this type situation. I WON"T ever see it again - I'm now completely retired.

Cultural awareness composes multi-part training as part of on the job training...

I have encountered on a few occasions situations somewhat similar... one was one of the Hospital Housekeepers... there was a spill and she stayed late to clean up... she missed the last bus and it was raining... I asked which way she was going and learned it was close to where I live and offered to drive her home... she thanked me but said she couldn't... I said it was really no problem for me but left it at that... the next day her supervisor approached saying it was nice I offered to take her home but added her husband is very controlling and he might not let her come back to work... we had worked together 2+ years... seems it being late and raining walking 44 blocks in Oakland at night vs having a co-worker take you home would one time would be anything but a problem... I was not raised in a family like this... so it was something I would not have expected.

Another time I got a security call from the lobby receptionist to alert me a suspicious guy with a hoodie just went into the clinic after closing where the medical assistant was alone and locking up... as I walked to the office one of the Housekeepers said there was a strange man with a hoodie in there... so I walk into the clinic and see Cynthia and asked if everything is OK and she says yes... asked her when she was leaving and if I could walk her to her car... the man with the hoodie turns around annoyed and says to mind my own business, he is her husband and wants to know if we profile everyone or just because he is Hispanic... never said thanks for checking on my wife and I had no idea what race he was... only a man with a Hoodie.

The next day I saw her in the elevator and she said her husband was mad at her all the way home???

The lesson is you can do all the right things for all the right reasons and you just never know how some people will react...

 

[ultrarunner]

61 people shot and killed by police since Jan 1st this year. Do our police need more training? Watch the videos posted on fb. Almost every time I see an officer who looks mad, scared, or out of control - not exactly professional. Then when the suspect is subdued, cuffed, complying - they continue to beat on them. Training, or the wrong people have been hired - makes the police look bad. The joke is now- something goes wrong, don't call the police if you want to live to tell the tale! ..... And the women are the same as the men.

My wife has old stories of the cops grabbing kids in the park who were causing problems - and smacking them around pretty hard - but no arrests.

Are these the bad apples or the ones just under the radar. .... Then you read that the cops in Baltimore and NY planted drugs, and even had toy guns to plant on kids they shot.

What a world. No wonder we have Kevin Spaceys, a Clinton having sex in the oval office, a president with the reputation of groping. What happened to honesty and moral fiber?

I don't know what the answer is but I have seen first hand what the police in my city have to work with and it is not moral or civil... plus there is a real fear of blood/body fluid communicable disease...

Here is a link to one of the finest man I knew... he came to police work late and with a passion to serve our community... also very active in the community and youth activities... just an all around good guy who loved helping people... several days before he was ambushed and killed he was taking a report from me regarding neighborhood crime around the Hospital.

Police Officer Nels Daniel "Dan" Niemi, San Leandro Police Department, California

 

[goeduck]

I had a situation happen when I worked for a local county health dept. I don't know what you would call it - I've never experienced anything like it before. The largest town in this county has a very strong Hispanic population. I speak NO spanish. So one day I asked one of my clerical staff - a very nice Hispanic woman - if she could accompany me and be an interpreter. It worked out great - I did my inspections and this woman helped explain the results to the owners.

About ten day later I asked if she could again accompany me on some routine inspections. She was very embarrassed and apologetic and said - No, she could not. She explained that on the previous occasion - several of her husbands friends had seen us during the inspections. They had given her husband a very bad time - ridiculing him - saying he could no longer hold on to his woman and that she now liked the Gringo. This could not have been any further from the truth. Fortunately - when I talked to her husband - he completely understood.

I was Director of Environmental Health - doing inspections of restaurants, at that time. So I talked to my equal - the gal who was Director of Nursing. She said that this type of reaction would be what could normally be expected.

You could have knocked me down with a feather. I have NEVER seen this type situation. I WON"T ever see it again - I'm now completely retired.

Makes me want to wear a forehead cam and record everything as proof. This may not be far into the future with accusations the way they are.