Tick control...is there such a thing?

[bugstruck]

Several ticks vector Lyme. The dog tick is still being studied, it's definitely a carrier. So it may be a weak vector. The person who got me on to good treatment has had it chronically since 1979. She had more usable information than all the doctors put together. She claims dog ticks vector it too. Hard for me to argue with the head of the Lyme support group in this area. Doctors who really understand the disease and treat beyond the 14 or 28 day CDC guidelines for prescription antiobiotics can get in professional trouble for prescribing needed medicine. It took 7x that duration to knock mine out. The politics is incredible and the stories abound on doctors who have come under attack for sensible treatment. I'll park it there as the thread is on tick control, not healing people. Thought it might be of some help or interest.

 

[Doc_Bob]

The Lyme disease bacterium, Borrelia burgdorferi, normally lives in mice, squirrels and other small animals. It is transmitted among these animals – and to humans -- through the bites of certain species of ticks.
In the northeastern and north-central United States, the blacklegged tick (or deer tick, Ixodes scapularis) transmits Lyme disease. In the Pacific coastal United States, the disease is spread by the western blacklegged tick (Ixodes pacificus). Other tick species found in the United States have not been shown to transmit Borrelia burgdorferi. Blacklegged ticks live for two years and have three feeding stages: larvae, nymph, and adult. When a young tick feeds on an infected animal, the tick takes the bacterium into its body along with the blood meal.
The bacterium then lives in the gut of the tick. If the tick feeds again, it can transmit the bacterium to its new host. Usually the new host is another small rodent, but sometimes the new host is a human.
Most cases of human illness occur in the late spring and summer when the tiny nymphs are most active and human outdoor activity is greatest.


http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/ld_transmission.htm




Bottom line, from the CDC itself, only Ixodes species transmit Lyme Disease.

The Dog tick has not been shown to transmit Lyme Disease. This is a good thing.
Bob

 

[Doc_Bob]

I'll park it there as the thread is on tick control, not healing people. Thought it might be of some help or interest.

I think it also matters to not make all ticks transmitters of Lyme disease. I have plenty of folks who get very "concerned" when they get a dog tick attached. When I remove the tick, politics and hysteria (not medicine) kicks in. Trying to explain to someone that they
1) do not need treatment
2) will not get Lyme Disease

can be impossible if they believe that all ticks can give them Lyme disease. Also, if the Ixodes tick has not been on you for > 24 hours and has not taken a blood meal, then Lyme just isn’t going to happen. I was part of studies done at Ft.McCoy, Wisconsin for the Army in the 1990s (deer ticks everywhere). Hundreds of ticks collected, cataloged, and studied. All soldiers had blood samples done day one and months later. Chance of Lyme from deer tick was less than 1%. Dog tick 0%. The Army no longer checks for Lyme titers. Even if you have a positive Lyme titer does not mean you have Lyme Disease. It just means you have a positive lyme titer.

Politics runs Lyme disease. Not medicine. Emotion can run real high with ticks. Good information is what matters, not hysteria.

I posted the picture of a dog tick biting me to illustrate that there was no risk. Trust me, if I thought that dog tick was going to harm me, I would have self prescribed treatment. I did nothing but remove the tick and drive on.

Anything that can remove fear from folks is vital to protection from ticks. If someone reading this can learn that the dog tick is not an issue, then we have done some good. Eliminating ignorance is vital to health.
Bob

 

[suttles]

I don't much believe the CDC when it comes to lyme disease.

We have the lone star tick and it has it's own strain of borrelia.

After spending close to 20 years going to Drs all over the country and not one ever mentioned lyme disease.
One of my symptoms is excesive sleepiness, I had seen 5 different sleep Drs.
Before we had internet I would try to find out things from library books.
One day I ask a Dr if someone could have a low grade encephalitis and he said sure lyme disease.
I thought he was trying to be nice just to give me a answer.
Most Drs I had seen hardly gave me 5 min of there time.

I came home and did a search and joined some forums.
After I learned about a western blot I had the test done from IGENEX and I had 10 different bands on both IGG and IGM.
Only the IGG was CDC positive. Then I found out that most Drs will not treat it for more than 3-4 weeks of antibiotics and that is based on the CDC recomendation.

I had to travel to MO to find a Dr that would treat it.
From what I have been told you never get rid of it since it is a spiralkeet. (sorry for the spelling) So I guess you just lower the bacterial load.
Now I have neuropathy in my feet and nerve damage in my back.

Neck, knees, spind, hands and feet all have some arthritis that has gotten more painful.
I can live with some of the things but being so sleepy is one that I can't and then feeling like I have the flu is often miserable.

In TN they say we don't have lyme but the army did a tick drag back in the early 90's and found that about 1/3 of the ticks had borrelia.

I don't mean any disrespect. I have not been to medical school. I spend a lot of time looking for answers to feel better.
travis

 

[bugstruck]

Doc Bob, Understood on your post. A lot of good information. Regarding tick vectors, what you stated is the line they want everyone in the medical community to tow. I can tell you it's not entirely accurate. Nobody questions if dog ticks carry the bacteria, studies have shown they do. The question is do they transmit to humans. Chances are they do on occassion, even if it's exceeding rare. I'm not into medicine and biololgy. I just know that had my Neurologist towed the CDC line, I'd still be sick. Thankfully, she didn't and I'm fine. If you had this disease and the 28 day treatment failed, you'd have a different understanding. It's life altering. My Arrhytmias, that my doctor said could kill me if left unchecked are an absolute joke beside it IMO. Science can err, particularily science twisted at the root as this topic is for financial reasons. So we agree that politics runs Lyme but for different reasons. The body though, it can't contort itself to imposed medical theory. I could say mine is just one man's opinion, but it's well understood by those who have struggled to get adequate treatment when the CDC allocations failed. Our numbers and clout are growing, so eventually science and testing will surface for those who contract this in the future. That said, I think we would both agree that there are more than a few quacks out there reaping thier own finanacial gain on the backs of Lyme patients by overhyping the disease. No doubt as to that. I certainly hope I'm not associated with that crowd by what I've said here. So my best advice is to avoid the disease through prevention. \

People aren't hopping planes in the pursuit of remedy for no good reason or pure hysteria. At least most aren't. It's not the ticks that concern us, it's the disease. Still not all that well studied or understood. But it is slowly improving. Good doctoring and sensible patients will beat this in the end. Emotion is truely useless in the endeavour to treat the disease, unless it prompts someone off the fence. Many are perched.

 

[jeffinsgf]

While I understand that Lyme can be much more devastating, I had a bout of Ehrliciosis two summers ago, and can promise you that I don't want to ever go through that again. That said, I haven't taken any extraordinary precautions. I am certainly not going to stay out of the woods just because one time two years ago I hit one in 10,000 odds. I think the sensible thing to do is to avoid their habitat when you can, wear some repellent when they're most active and you have to be in the habitat, and pay attention to your health for the first couple of weeks after you remove one of the little devils. If you feel like you have a flu, DO NOT blow it off and treat with Tylenol, etc. See a doctor and tell them that you had a tick bite. I kept refusing to go to the doctor until my wife dragged me. Good thing she did. Doc said I wouldn't have made it another day. Luckily Ehrliciosis is like Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, once treated it is over. Sorry to hear about you guys with Lyme. I have heard that it is life changing.

 

[bugstruck]

Jeff, Glad to see you got yourself taken care of. I'm pretty much like you, I don't dwell on it, just check myself over after a day afield. Around here, if you have an embedded deer tick your chances for Lyme or one of the other diseases they transmit is actually fairly high. I got nailed on the second tick in 35 years and my brother got it on the first in several years. Neither of us made the 24 hour attachment rule either to the best of our recollections. We found them pretty quick. So there's plenty of medical theory that sure didn't seem to apply to he or I. Was interesting how the same disease in brothers manifested differently. I had the EM rash, he didn't. I had a more radical onset and I'm fine but he's younger and permanently messed up. So when someone hands out a brochure and says here are the symptoms, here's the course of treatment, and these will be the results..... don't bet on it. Many different outcomes. Admittedly most are good if you catch it early, some aren't though.

 

[dmccarty]

CRC,

Good luck trying to control ticks. For us its ticks and chiggers, I call them tiggers for short.

As others have said keep the grass and brush cut short.

I get two pairs of very light weight cotton pants every couple of years that are light colored. They are cheap and usually last a couple of years before they need to be replaced. When I work in the woods I wear these pants with boots and two pairs of socks the outer wool sock I pull down over my boot laces to keep them from getting hung up. The inner sock I use to tuck the pants legs into. This forces the tigger to walk up and makes them easier to see.

I also soak my clothes in Permethrin once a year. This stuff kills tiggers. I have watched chigger hit my legs and start climbing. Within a short time they where dead. The Permethrin will last though a season of washing before needing to be reapplied. I think the US Military treats fatigues with Permethrin. This goes on the clothes not the person.

Ticks have a life cycle as others have mentioned. If you can removed the hosts from any part of the cycle you will reduce ticks. The ticks in my areas like mice according to an article I just read. I would assume they would also like rabbits and tree rats as well as the deer. If those populations are reduced then so should the tiggers.

I read of a parasite that could be spread in your yard to kill ticks. I think the company was in SC but this was years ago and I never used the stuff. Just did not think it would work with our situation. I think the only thing that would reduce the tigger population would be a wildfire....

I also just read that some parts of Texas has had a drop in fireant population due to drought. This was a good thing so thought the ranchers. But with the fireants gone the ticks have come back...

So maybe you want some fireants?

Later,
Dan

 

[Doc_Bob]

also soak my clothes in Permethrin once a year. This stuff kills tiggers. I have watched chigger hit my legs and start climbing. Within a short time they where dead. The Permethrin will last though a season of washing before needing to be reapplied. I think the US Military treats fatigues with Permethrin. This goes on the clothes not the personDan

Yep, the US Army uses it and it works great! Clothes only (don't use it on any headgear or underwear. Just outer clothing). Can cause a rash in some folks with sensitve skin if put in hats, underwear, etc. Fine on outer clothing.
Bob

 

[Adron]

Progressive Farmer June/July 2006 edition has a very good article on tick vector control. the deer treatment station is called a "4-poster" and was developed by the Agricultural Research Service. and shown to have 92 to 98% control 3 years after first use. Control extends to about 50 acres.

The mouse control is called Maxforce Tick Management System is used for smaller areas, and uses cardboard tubes with cotton balls impregnated with a tick insecticide. Reduce tick populations by 90%.

More information on the treatment stations is available at www.crdaniels.com and the mice treatment at www.maxforcetms.com