Tier 4

[brain55]

Does anybody know yet what type of diagnostic interface is going to be used. Is it going to be like the early days of automotive computers where every manufacturer has a different plug, or are they gonna be smart enough to come out with a universal interface like OBD II?

I work on a lot of different equipment and at some point soon I'm going to need to find someplace where I can get some schooling on Tier 4 systems.

Brian

 

[cyrush]

As far as i Know each manufacturer has their own system, there is no national or international standard regarding off road equipment ??

 

[boomer1025]

Check with Nexiq which owns Snap-On tools, They do alot of software work with OEM's

 

[RickB]

As far as i Know each manufacturer has their own system, there is no national or international standard regarding off road equipment ??

That's it. All technology and software is proprietary.

 

[brain55]

Check with Nexiq which owns Snap-On tools, They do alot of software work with OEM's

Thanks, that would be great if they had a solution since I already have a Snap-On Verus scanner.

I'm thinking John Deere will likely incorporate theirs into their existing onboard diagnostics. Not sure what New Holland will do since they seem to use different OEM's. The one that probably interests me most, is Kubota since they are by far the primary OEM that I encounter, followed by Deutz.

 

[brain55]

That's it. All technology and software is proprietary.

I hope they don't do what Bobcat has done and make it so only dealers can plug into their computer. I hope they keep the engine system out of their control module.

 

[SSdoxie]

I hope they don't do what Bobcat has done and make it so only dealers can plug into their computer. I hope they keep the engine system out of their control module.

Regrettably the software/diagnostics, control module, and computer interface come from the Injection System Supplier. In the Kubota/Bobcat/Caterpillar case on Kubota's V3800 engine this starts with Denso. Denso then adds programing and diagnostics to fit that Kubota engine. Kubota then has Denso add programing to fit their OEM customer. While the interface tool used is the sqame tool it has different drivers in it and communicates to different software for each engine. Kubota dealer cannot read or diagnos an engine in Bobcat or CAT and neither of them can read anyother than thier own. This is all setup by Denso.

 

[brain55]

That's not what I want to hear, I just hope they make that software available to the public.

 

[SSdoxie]

I have not read this anywhere but was told that there is an EPA regulation coming in affect sometime in or after 2015 that will require engine manufactures to make their software available. They can (and will) charge for it, and I don't know if there are any stipulations on price.
I do know that Bobcat tried to get Kubota and Denso engineers to get uniform OBD II type software and diagnostics but did not prevail. By end of next year when remaining engines get switched to Electronic Injection a Bobcat dealer will have to have 5 different tools and software to work on the full line of equipment (Kubota, Doosan, Yanmar, Perkins, & Polaris).

 

[RickB]

I hope they don't do what Bobcat has done and make it so only dealers can plug into their computer. I hope they keep the engine system out of their control module.

It's not a matter of what they are going to do. It's already done. Offroad ECU software is proprietary, has been since the first of it was introduced to control transmissions in the early '90's or so. Tier IV doesn't change that. It is clearly moving towards onboard diagnostics, but the information is not in the public domain and isn't likely to move there any time soon.
The primary reason that engine ECU's are kept separate from chassis control units is because the engines may be outsourced, or come from a separate corporate entity.

 

[john_bud]

Ahhhh, gone are the days when the only wires went to lights, alternator, starter and battery. Sniff.

As they say, "they don't make them like they used to" -- thankfully!

 

[MHarryE]

It seems like every month things change. Earlier this year Caterpillar announced they are switching from their own engines to Kubota engines on a lot of their smaller equipment (skid steers, small wheel loaders, mini-excavators for example). Last month Bobcat announced it is switching from Kubota engines to Doosan engines (Doosan is their parent) in skid steers starting in 2014 partly because Kubota couldn't give them an engine without a DPF so they developed their own although some say in part they were miffed at Kubota for selling engines to Cat. As for ECMs being proprietary, that is a pain if the machine had multiple interfaces. Can't deny that. Still I remember the first auto transmission car we had, a '51 Chev my dad picked up cheap, 2 speed Powerglide that took what seemed like a full second to make a shift. My main car now has an 8 speed of which I can't tell shifts unless I really stomp on it - and it gets triple the fuel economy of that '51, doesn't need new points, plugs, and condenser every 8,000 miles.