Buying Advice Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors?

[super55]

The EPA is one of the strongest government agencies with little to no oversight. Regulations they can just create and implement. Tier 5 is looking to do a 75 to 90% increased reduction from Tier 4 whether the technology is available to make it happen or not.

Hopefully its not like the Ford vs. International/Navistar debacle all over again where there were a string of problems and ultimately the consumer paid the price.

I was watching a youtube video from an auctioneer and he was talking about how JD European tractors pull a premium in US auctions because you don't need DEF to meet emission standards there.

 

[troverman]

CARB, the EPA, and many other tax-payer funded agencies struggle to find a reason to be. They served a purpose, but have gotten addicted to the power and most importantly, the money that flows in. There is an economic principle called the law of diminishing marginal utility. It states that initially, it only takes a small input to have a big change on something. But over time, it takes more and more of the same input to result in a smaller and smaller effect. The same concept could be applied to an addict. And here we are, after greatly reducing much of the pollution with reasonable and affordable solutions now grasping at straws, forcing the costs of machinery and vehicles skyward to gain 'a few micrograms less' of particulate matter.

Everyone wants clean air, clean water, and good health. But unfortunately illness and death comes for all of us. There are numerous examples of people who smoked until they were 90, or drank alcohol everyday until old age, or were overweight, etc and still lived long past the life expectancy...and numerous examples of people doing "everything right" that died early.

If this rule plays out, average homeowners wanting a Kubota BX or JD 1-series will now get to pay a few thousand more to gain a less reliable tractor that they might put 20 or 30 hours on per year. Meanwhile, I continue to drive my 2005 F-350 diesel daily which spews more PM probably on one long drive than these small tractors will emit in a year.

 

[TPerini]

So the EU & US are saving the world while China and the rest are building coal fired plants faster than you can blink, maybe a little over exaggerated. but China alone built 65 last year. I would imagine their increases in these plants is for them to keep up with the products imported by the EU & US. So with that I ask are we just shifting the pollution or are we gaining on the problem?

 

[aircommuter]

California started this with the creation of CARB, they specialize in busy work. Find something to keep themselves busy. Remember 2018 Diesel truck ban was going to save xxxxx cancer deaths. The lead scientist was found to have a phony PHD. Name Hein Tran. They continued to say they believed in their science. Healthcare rates haven’t gone down? There was a website called Kill Carb dot Org. The state took over that site. It exposed the lies. One of their scientists with a real PHD proved that only 5% of particulate matter came from Diesel engines. He was promptly fired. They have a billion dollar annual budget funded by smog checks and other taxes.
Now it’s gas stoves, OMG I knew that it was all those cooks that were the COPD victims. I wonder how much pollution is created making DEF, the containers for it, hauling it, and disposal of the containers. Must be factored in? I could go on. But I have shown more than they can answer to already. Plus I have things to do.

 

[EddieWalker]

If it wasn't so damaging, it would be funny. Young people that I know in their 20's and 30's like to blame the oil companies for what's wrong with the planet. I've heard that Big Oil only cares about making money and they Government needs to stop giving them tax breaks because they make too much money.

Then when the government restricts Big Oil, and the price of oil shoots up, those same people get even more upset that gasoline costs more and the Oil Companies are making even bigger profits. The biggest supporter of the Green Movement is Big Oil.

The more restriction put on producing oil in the US, the more money they make on oil.

 

[troverman]

...I wonder how much pollution is created making DEF, the containers for it, hauling it, and disposal of the containers. Must be factored in?

Keep in mind DEF reduces oxides of nitrogen, while the DPF filters particulate matter. Of the two, I'd keep DEF. Although it can have faults like the heaters fail in the tanks, it has zero effect on how your engine runs or how long it lives. The DPF, on the other hand, if it plugs...your engine doesn't run. When regens happen and diesel is injected into the cylinder at the top of the exhaust stroke and through the turbo...I'd say it has an adverse effect on longevity. It also makes little sense to burn extra fuel in order to be cleaner, which is what a regen does.

 

[aircommuter]

Yes of course and if for no other reasons they have to refine more oil and transport more fuel. But those items are conveniently never mentioned. How do you promote your agenda. Tell what sounds good, don’t mention all the facts, and answer questions with a question or change the subject. With that method you can’t go wrong.

 

[troverman]

I always said the same thing about the VW diesel TDI cars. When the EPA was made to look like a fool because the VW's were cheating on NOx emissions, they came down on VW like a ton of bricks to set an example. 90% of all VW TDI owners traded their car for a gas model which literally got 15-20mpg less. Did anyone do a cost-benefit analysis to see if pollution was really reduced by switching people into vehicles which burned more fuel? Of course not. The loss of those TDI's was a darn shame...nice cars to drive, and 50+ mpg highway all day.

 

[JCoastie]

Yet they say nothing about the rubber dust from tires as you drive down the highway,

Oh, it's coming ....

Don’t Tread On Me: Washington State Coming For Your Tires

Washington state is mulling a bill that would allow bureaucrats to ban the sale of certain tires if they fail to meet fuel efficiency standards.

dailycaller.com

SmartWay Verified List for Low Rolling Resistance (LRR) New and Retread Tire Technologies | US EPA

The table below shows low rolling resistance tires that are SmartWay verified when used on class 8, line-haul tractor trailers.

www.epa.gov

 

[aircommuter]

Almost all the Diesel engine manufacturers have been fined at some point. But the money was never refunded to the buyers! Why not? It’s just another way to tax the public and fool a portion of the public at the same time. Have you ever read the article about what California did with their money from the fines? It’s hilarious.

https://amp.sacbee.com/news/california/article283999928.html