Tightening bolts and greasing

[Dargo]

I just have to ask others. I've seen the thread on making sure that you tighten bolts and grease more often on a particular brand tractor. As many people know, I've had over a dozen new tractors in the last 20 years or so. They have all been JD, CNH, or Kubota. Even though all the manuals call for the owner to initially check certain bolts, i.e. wheel bolt torque, I've never found a loose bolt on any of the tractors. Also, on FEL and BH attachments, the tolerances have been tight and by following the recommended time intervals, I've only gotten about a half a pump of grease in the grease fittings with no premature wear or issues.

My question is, are the big three dealers just that much better than the smaller makes at quality control, or is there that much difference in quality in the production of the tractor? It just seems odd that there is that much difference. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="red"> I've never found a loose bolt on any of the tractors. </font>

I've had to tighten up loose bolts on some antiques, but not on any recent modern tractors. I do recall a thread that there were some loose front wheel nuts on some of the Class 1 TC tractors, but that doesn't seem to have surfaced as an issue in about 2 years. I also recall reading one of the owners of a popular minor brand who ended up welding some of his bolts so they would not come loose.

<font color="red">
Also, on FEL and BH attachments, the tolerances have been tight and by following the recommended time intervals, I've only gotten about a half a pump of grease in the grease fittings with no premature wear or issues. </font>

I've got no wear problems either. I pump just barely enough grease to squish the old grease out. Typically 1/2 to 1 full stroke depending on where the fitting is. I do this about every 15 hours and I'm sure I miss some but I get them the next time around.

<font color="red">
My question is, are the big three dealers just that much better than the smaller makes at quality control, or is there that much difference in quality in the production of the tractor? It just seems odd that there is that much difference. </font>

Interesting question. I would say there are good and bad at both levels, but my personal experience with 2 Big 3 dealers is that mine are superior to many of the minor brand dealers I read about here on TBN. Also, based on what I see around me, one of the minor dealers near me is a "garden center" another minor brand dealer branched into tractors from selling lawn mowers & garden tractors. A third minor brand dealer is also my New Holland dealer, he doesn't sell many of the minor brand he represents. So my experience here is that most of the minor brands are also represented by what I consider to be substandard dealers.

Now I have an 11 year relationship with my Kubota/Cub/Case dealer. He constantly amazes me with what they check over, what they point out and with the service they provide. I have only a 2 year relationship with my New Holland/Branson dealer. The tractor is in for a warrenty repair on the fuel gauge and they have called me twice to ask questions, to let me know about additional things they are doing for me etc. I'm sure there are some minor brands that have excellent dealers (Jon DePratt comes to mind as one who has a good reputation) but I think there are probably a lot of sub-par dealer out there for the minor brands.

 

[JerryG]

If one did a survey, I think that most of the loose bolts as bolts that were installed by the dealer not the factory. As far a grease goes, I don't see how just a half to one squirt of grease could even fill the void let alone extrude the contaminates. Grease is cheap, put enough in to get the dirt and grit out of the joint.

 

[Soundguy]

The only loose bolts I've ever found were on the tail wheel of a mower -I- had assembl dthe week before. I'll chalk that up to my arms not being big enough /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

When i do my 'walkaround'.. I eye the wheel lugnuts.. if they all look uniform I go.

The only loose bolt isse I have heard about was the tranny casting bolts on NH 2120's.. and heard stories of a tractor breaking in half.

I DO grease unitll I see grease push out.. or 1 pump into 'blind' areas.

Front axle pivot allways seems to need about 5-6 pumps before it starts pushing any out. IMHO. it gets alot of work from hours of mowing..e tc.

Soundguy

 

[Dargo]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If one did a survey, I think that most of the loose bolts as bolts that were installed by the dealer not the factory)</font>

I sort of really assumed that, but I was afraid to come right out and say that for fear of really ticking off some dealers on here. I'm not trying to point a finger at anyone, but there seems to be a trend of poor assembly at the dealer level. Again, just MHO. I'd think the manufacturer would start cracking heads, so to speak, and resolve that issue before those problems become synonomous with the brand.

Oh yeah, on grease, I'll just follow the manufacturer's recommendations. I have a LandPride finish mower that has been used 30 weeks or more a year to mow 12 acres with for over 12 years now. Every wheel bearing, spindle, and wheel swivel is still practically as tight as new, with absolutely zero failures. I've never had a lack of lubrication failure on any piece of equipment I own, or even had "normal" wear. By staying strictly to the proper schedule, I've experienced far, far less wear than expected with no failures.

 

[JerryG]

<font color="blue"> I'm not trying to point a finger at anyone, but there seems to be a trend of poor assembly at the dealer level. </font>
I'm not. If that is where the problem is, it needs to be said. It is hard to get good help for min. wage. It is to a large part our collective fault. We as a group like to squeeze the last nickel out of the dealers. We shouldn't have to buy from a dealer that has radically inflated prices, but we should understand that the dealer has to make money.

 

[Dargo]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( We shouldn't have to buy from a dealer that has radically inflated prices, but we should understand that the dealer has to make money.)</font>

That is so true. I sort of work in and around the auto business. I think it is great when a customer comes into a dealership with a printout of exactly what the dealer cost is. Then, it is simply negotiating as to what a "fair" profit is. The dealer absolutely has to make money. If he doesn't, I don't want to buy from him; he won't be there in the future when I may need him. Yes, I want a fair price, but I certainly believe that the dealer can't push tractors (or cars) out the door for too small of a profit margin.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green">If that is where the problem is, it needs to be said. It is hard to get good help for min. wage. It is to a large part our collective fault. We as a group like to squeeze the last nickel out of the dealers. We shouldn't have to buy from a dealer that has radically inflated prices, but we should understand that the dealer has to make money.
</font>


Jerry, I generally agree with you, but I'm not so sure I do this time. If I understood Dargo's original post correctly, he was questioning why some brands seem to have to have all sorts of thing tightened, fixed up, filled with oil, etc (yes I did expand his post a bit, but because I think he was asking a broad range question). To me those sound like dealer issues. And you did state that. And to that part I do agree with you, if they are dealer issues then the dealer should be called out on it. But what it does not seem to explain is that there do NOT seem to be high levels of dealer issues with some of the brands that have a very large market share percentage.

Or stated a different way, if Kubota has a 50% to 60% market share, and if its market share is growing, as has been reported, and if all tractors are of generally equal quality, then we should see roughly 50% to 60% of all complaints levied against Kubota, or its dealers. Similarly we should see roughly 20% of the complaints levied against John Deere, or its dealers. And we should see 10% to 15% of all the complaints levied against New Holland, or its dealers. But that does not seem to be what I observe here on TBN. It seems that some brands are probably known for loose bolts. Heck, who here thinks Jinma puts top quality seals on their engines and good quality hoses/belts on their machines? Those are the types of things that people think about Jinma.

So things like loose bolts then go back to the fact that some dealers are GOOD and some dealers are BAD. A bad dealer may not tighten the bolts. A bad dealer may not fill gearboxes on mowers/cutter/etc with oil. A bad dealer may have minimum wage workers assemble the tractor to boost his profit margin, but a good dealer will have a qualified mechanic do that. I paid BOTTOM dollar for my tractors, but I got them from "GOOD" dealers.

Now I don't know, and have no way of telling if some brand has greater or lesser tolerances on their parts than some other brand, so I don't know if loose bolts are a part of a bigger (design/tolerance/quality control) problem.

I don't see why a tractor owner should constantly have to search for loose bolts on his tractor. Heck do you know anyone to check a NEW car every 10 hours to see if the steering linkage is about to fall apart? Or if some other part is about to rattle off?

 

[Charolais]

Dargo I think the wheel bolt thing came from years ago. We row cropped here and used 140 Farmalls. Never had the wheel bolts to get loose but did have the dish to rim bolts to work loose. I've even had to replace those bolts a couple of times. Just my opinion it came from locking one wheel or the other at the end of the row to turn sharp fast and get back in the next row. We didn't leave a lot of turn around space at those ends and pretty much had to lock one wheel to keep from backing up to make the turn.

Over time it got to be a habit to listen for that little clicking noise those loose bolts would make. I tried new lock washers and even loctite but they would get loose after cultivating over 50-60 acres. Just something we expected to happen and those that didn't take notice of that clicking noise or didn't check the bolts most times had to replace the dish or the rim sooner or later. Even heard of wheels falling off.

I now own Long and Farmtrac. The Farmtrac loader hyd. fittings had to be retightened. But other than that I've had no problem. But I don't lock the wheels often to turn now either. In fact I most of the time keep both brake pedals lock together.

It is a good idea to check those bolts all over any tractor and even more important if you have a loader. I've seen one IH with loader that the bolts from the engine to the transmission had worked loose. The guy caught it before it fell apart. It doesn't happen often but it still can happen. Even to the big three.

With grease. I have all flavors of equipment. Don't see any difference of grease usage in any. Hey but I use Amsoil grease! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[RickB]

I work at a dealership, and I don't have any problem saying it. The vast majority of loose hardware is dealer assembled to begin with, not factory assembled. It is just the plain truth.