Tiller Question

[vik123]

Hi, this is my first post. I found this forum while trying to fix my tiller, I hope it's OK to post here. I have been having a problem with my Honda FR700 tiller because, like a lazy fool, I didn't winterize it properly. It worked fine last fall, started on one pull. This spring I tried to start it with no luck. I have been doing the stuff I should have done before the winter; changing the oil, putting new fuel in, changing the air filter, but still no luck. I just drained the carburetor and this is where I have run into a little problem. My camera isn't working well so I attached the diagram instead:

I removed the screw (5) to drain the chamber (3), then I pulled the pin from the plastic float (2). As I pulled on the float (2) I heard something fall into the drain pan. It turns out it was the float valve (8). Now I want to put it back but I'm not sure how the float valve goes back.

I'm a novice here; any help with this (and also getting the tiller running again) would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[joshuabardwell]

In my experience, you are on the hook for a carb rebuild. Sorry, I can't help with the float question.

When you changed the oil, was there gas in it?

 

[oldmech]

Hi! For your carburator the needle valve go up but they are a slot on the needle valve this slot slide on the float . a little tricky for put inside carb. Good luck Oldmech

 

[vik123]

Thanks for the advice guys.

joshuabardwell, I really hope this is not the case. It was working fine before, so I am hoping it just needs a tune-up. There was gas in it when I changed the oil.

oldmech, sorry I don't completely understand. When you say needle valve, do you mean float valve (8)?

This is what the plastic float and pin (2) look like:


This is what the float valve (8) looks like:


What do you mean when you say slide the needle on the float? There is a nozzle from the carburetor around where it looks like the float valve (8) goes. Does the float valve (8) rest on the plastic float (2) into that nozzle?

 

[joshuabardwell]

joshuabardwell, I really hope this is not the case. It was working fine before, so I am hoping it just needs a tune-up. There was gas in it when I changed the oil.

I'm sorry to tell you, but here is what has happened, almost certainly. Because you stored the machine with un-treated gasoline in the carburetor, the carburetor has been damaged, and the needle valve no longer closes when the carb is full. This can happen one of two ways (at least): "varnish" from the gummed-up gas can build up on the needle or the O-ring can get eaten away by the ethanol in the gas. As you may know, the purpose of the needle valve is to stop fuel flowing into the carburetor when the carb is full. When the needle valve doesn't seal, what happens is that all of the gasoline in the tank leaks through the carburetor, into the cylinders, and eventually, into the oil pan. This is just going to keep happening until you make it so that the needle valve seals.

If "varnish" is your issue, you may be able to restore function with carb cleaner, which is specifically designed to remove gasoline "varnish". If the O-ring is the issue, it can probably be replaced without replacing the entire carb. Either way, the needle valve needs to seal completely for the carb to work properly.

A simple workaround is to just install an inline cutoff valve on the fuel line. I have these on my mower, whose carb was damaged in this exact same way. When I'm done using the mower, I reach under the hood and cut off the valve. Then I use the remaining gas in the carb to drive to the barn and park the mower. Then I turn the throttle all the way down, set the parking brake, put it in neutral, and walk away. A few minutes later, the motor runs the carb dry and the mower stalls out. If I ever forget to do this and just turn the mower off with the key, the gas will run down into the oil and I will have to change the oil, but I'm pretty well trained and that has never happened. This solution wouldn't work for everybody, however, and many people would prefer a solution that preserved the mower's usual function--e.g. you can turn it off with the key.

IMO, with today's ethanol-containing gas, bleeding the carb dry when you're done using a tool is good policy, even if you use treated gas.

EDIT TO ADD: A third thing that can cause your needle valve not to seal is that the needle itself can become worn, to the point that it doesn't seal properly. If so, it may need to be replaced. I believe this is part number 8, which you are referring to as "float valve". "Varnish" from gummed-up gas and/or a worn O-ring is a more likely cause, though, especially if your machine is not very old.

 

[Ed of all trades]

This is a simple thing that happens every day. NO BIG DEAL Get a can of carb cleaner with a spray tube and spray in all the holes you can and clean it out well. Clean the float, bowl ect everything you see. then put the float valve in the little hole near the henge of the float and slide the float into place and slide the pin in. put the bowl back on. Be sure to drain the old gas out of the tank, You can do it, Good luck and God bless.

 

[joshuabardwell]

This is a simple thing that happens every day. NO BIG DEAL Get a can of carb cleaner with a spray tube and spray in all the holes you can and clean it out well. Clean the float, bowl ect everything you see. then put the float valve in the little hole near the henge of the float and slide the float into place and slide the pin in. put the bowl back on. Be sure to drain the old gas out of the tank, You can do it, Good luck and God bless.

You're 100% right. I didn't mean to make this sound like a bigger deal than it was. In my case, carb cleaner did not do the trick, but it often does.

 

[MHarryE]

Thanks for the advice guys.

joshuabardwell, I really hope this is not the case. It was working fine before, so I am hoping it just needs a tune-up. There was gas in it when I changed the oil.

oldmech, sorry I don't completely understand. When you say needle valve, do you mean float valve (8)?

This is what the plastic float and pin (2) look like:
View attachment 273881

This is what the float valve (8) looks like:
View attachment 273877

What do you mean when you say slide the needle on the float? There is a nozzle from the carburetor around where it looks like the float valve (8) goes. Does the float valve (8) rest on the plastic float (2) into that nozzle?

I recently disassembled my niece's mower - it has a similar looking float and valve. The groove in the valve fit into ears on the plastic float near the pivot pin. Flip the float one way and you could only see the flat piece of plastic that turns out to be the portion that pushes on the valve. Flip the float the other way and you could see an ear from each side. The groove in the valve fit neatly between those ears which serve to center and pull the needle down. The bottom portion pushes up on the valve. I blasted out all the passages out with electrical contact cleaner, reassembled, and she says it runs better than it has since I gave her the lawn tractor 6 years ago. I also replaced the spark plug - it was a mower I had bought 12 years ago and never had anything done to it except change oil in all that time, including zero winterization and continually fueled with the 10% ethanol gasoline, the only thing readily available in Minnesota (gotta support the corn farmers). This is a John Deere tractor, not a Honda, but the parts look so similar it could be the same carburetor. I took pictures as I went along to make sure I could figure out how to get it back together but apparently I deleted them after I finished because I can't find them now.