Tiller Tiller questions

[Bob_Young]

How slow must the tractor be moving to use a tiller? My L4300 lists a speed of 1.1mph in first gear. I assume that's at the engine RPM rated for 540 PTO RPM. Is this slow enough? My soil is mostly sandy loam with a liberal sprinkling of small to softball size cobblestones along with an occasional small boulder.

I know the walk-behind tillers I've used move quite slowly. At rated PTO RPM, the tractor is definitely moving faster in 1st gear than those old walk-behinds. Also, the walk-behinds were being used in gardens that had been picked free of stones. I'm hoping to till up a couple of small hayfields.

Will a tiller stand up to cobblestones or will it beat itself to death? I would probably run the thing well below 540RPM simply to reduce the shock of hitting things. However, beyond a certain point this is self defeating and a bottom plow and disc would get the work done quicker and cheaper. Am I correct in assuming that tillers CAN perform effectively if run below 540RPM?

The Kubota's manual lists a 60" tiller as max behind the 45HP L4300. I'm looking at geared commercial grade tillers; a 60" from Woods and either a 58" or a 66" from CCM. Haven't priced the Woods yet. Anyone care to opine about which is the better choice?

Thanks.
Bob

 

[grandad]

Bob, you've identified some key issues with using a tiller.

First, there's nothing magic about always being at 540 rpm with your tiller.

But whether you are using a walk-behind or a tractor-mounted tiller, any tiller works the same essential way by churning the ground into ever smaller clumps. Faster rotation and slower ground speed mean more churning per sq ft being tilled. So, even a big tiller can only cover ground so fast and still do its job.

You're right... tilling at 1 mph is flying... relatively speaking. I would definitely not have covered 1 mile of ground after an hour of tilling at my place.

A gear-drive tractor has some limits in the pace you can move through the area being tilled. In any given gear, you can only speed up or slow down with the throttle, which also controls the tiller's rotation. Thus, getting the right combination of ground speed and rotation can be tricky and also depends a lot on soil condition.

Then you mentioned the rocks. Even a softball-sized rock will stop a tiller cold if it jams between the tines. If it doesn't jam, that size rock can give the tiller a real jolt. To add insult to injury... instead of bringing them to the surface, tillers have a tendency to re-bury rocks like that at least half the time, so you get to hit them again next year!

So, I'm thinking you may not have the ideal situation for a tiller with your gear-drive tractor operating in sort of rocky soil. If you will be working the same ground each year (i.e. a garden), it would probably help to de-rock the area as much as possible. You'll never get them all (a new crop comes in every year!), but your tiller, your tractor and your posterior will appreciate each one avoided. At the extreme, if your soil is just full of those cobblestones, you may need to reconsider the tiller option.

As for which tiller, you have plenty enough hp for a 72" tiller. You may want to get one wide enough to cover your wheel tracks, so you don't have to deal with offsetting the tiller to one side.

 

[DannyD]

My bx and KK 48" do a great job at a slow tractor speed and full throttle. I have HST so I can control ground speed somewhat. As for soil, clay and rocks, and my setup takes care of it very well consdiering.

Rocks I have are softball sized and bigger, but are not the same as driveway stone, seems to be softer and the tiller just crunches them or passes them thru. I have lots of whatever they are made of, have never had the tiller stall on one. I would not put a stone like rip rap thru my tiller, it would not bust it up, and yes I have few dings from the inside.

 

[Tom_H]

I'm going to let answers others have given about the speed and time suffice. I have a couple of questions that may relate peripherally. This is just to give some ideas to mull on.

How large is the plot you plan to till? Do you anticipate tilling it every year? The reason I ask this is in relation to the rocks and soil structure. You might consider some one time investment in getting rid of the rocks. This might be done by plowing the area then landscape raking with a substantial rake. Repeat this alternating between plow and rake several times so that lower laying rocks are brought to the surface then removed. With the soil "de-rocked", tilling in future years could be less worrisome.

Alternately, due to its almost ideal structure, sandy loam could lend itself simply to being plowed and disced each year. Sandy loam is so easily moved that it doesn't really need to be "beaten" with a tiller the way some other soils do. Rocks aren't as much hazard to plows and discs as they are to tillers so plowing and discing would allow the rocks to be left in the soil. Some soils experts advocate leaving the rocks in the soil because hydrology and temperature changes actually cause the rocks to move around some, helping till and aerate the soil naturally.

You might consider calling your local soil and water conservation agent/county extension agent to get the opinion of someone who is an expert on your local soils.

Don't know whether this helps or not. I hope perhaps it does.

 

[Wesdor]

My brother just purchased a 60" KK tiller for his Kubota 3400. We used it for the first time on Friday and he was very impressed (so was I).

Tried it first on some ground that had been disced. Worked up in 1 pass with no problems. He was in 2nd gear low if I recall correctly.

Then tried it on some ground that had been plowed. Once again, it worked up nicely with 1 pass.

Then tried it on some ground that was hard clay that had cement over it until last year. There were still pieces of concrete buried here and there. The tiller spit them up to the top and banged a little but it didn't seem to hurt anything. I walked behind and took the concret pieces out.

He then took it to a spot with lots of small brush that had been mown off. Tilled right through that, although he did have problems with the occasional twig wrapping around the tiller tines.

I believe if you go in low gear, watch for rocks and other obstacles, keep your rpm up; you should have a well prepared seed bed in no more than 2 passes.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Henro]

Bob,

I see in the literature that a creep speed option exists for the L4330. Might such an option be there for the L4300?

Don't kow if this option is an add on like a mid PTO is on some tractors, relatively easy to do and not too expensive, or what.

Might be something to ask your dealer about if it turns out you need/want to go slower than you can now at full 540 pto rpm.

With the creep speed option on the L4330 lowest speed is 0.11 mph...

 

[DiskDoctr]

Bob,

I have used a 64" 3ph tiller a fair amount. Some gardens, but mostly to prep new topsoil for planting lawns. Here's what I found.

When breaking "new" or hard, or rocky ground, start with tiller at very LOW rpm. Maybe around 1/4 of full 540 rpm and ease it into the soil until it breaks up.

Make several passes until soil is free from "impact items" (stones, hard clumps, unbroken soil).

Now, after the soil is loose and you've picked out the big stones (yes, you MUST do this to protect your equipment), you can run the tiller at full 540 rpm and it will make the soil very fine and conditioned well.

In my experience, hitting the rocky or unbroken soil at full rpms just makes the tiller bounce and jump all over. Seems obvious that it is too hard on the equipment. Sure, it would eventually break it up, but I try to prevent premature wear by minimizing unneccesary bouncing and jerking.

Again, just my opinion, but I'd recommend you give it a try and see how it works for you.

BTW, 64" tiller on a 3510 Mahindra. Wanted the tiller to be at least as wide as the wheels- seemed strange to leave tire tracks in your freshly tilled soil

Oh, and "super low" speed for hard passes, then faster with subsequent passes. If the tiller jumps or bounces too much or the slip clutch is slipping, you're going too fast...

-JC

 

[tc18ny]

Bob ,
I think a tiller would work great for what you are trying to do. It will take some time to till acres of pasture, but should come out nice. I pull a 48'' Howard rotovator behind my TC18 (18.5HP) and it works great. I would have to disagree with an earlier post that a tiller pushes rocks down further into the ground. I run over rocks larger than softballs with mine, and it has never once "jammed". It simply tears them right out of the ground and kicks them up to the surface, making it easy to walk around and pick them up. The tiller does bounce around when I hit rocks. My tiller is about twenty years old and still going strong. I refurbished it last winter, took it right down to nuts and bolts, so hopefully will last another twenty years. I would think your tractor would easily pull a 60'' tiller at 1.1 MPH with good results. You could probably even go bigger.
Dave

 

[frankv]

I am looking into the exact same thing. I currently plow and disc but would like to break up the soil a little more. This is my second year on land that has been hayed for a long time. I too have tons of softball or larger sized rocks..

Anyone care to comment on CCM v.s. Woods GTO v.s. Howard?

Someone mentioned raking off the rocks...seems to me the tines on all the rakes are pretty close so either I am just going to get the rocks clearly sitting on the surface or I am going to take out alot of soil with the rocks..is there a better technique?

 

[Tom_H]

You're right. You'd get the rocks on the surface. Then, you'd plow to bring up more and do it again. It IS a lot of repetitive work, I do not deny that. It is a technique that can work though.

 

[frankv]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Anyone care to comment on CCM v.s. Woods GTO v.s. Howard? )</font>

No one?...what are the pros and/or cons of all gear drive (ccm) vs chain drive (Woods)?

Best price I can get locally on WoodsGTO-60" is $2125 +tax
or howard hr12 that's been sitting around for a few seasons on the lot fotr $2685. We know what CCM is from the web site...alot less.

 

[willywildes]

a new chain costs a few dollars to repair. you bust the gears throw it in the junk pile. [very expensive to fix] junk pile might be an over statement
now you have to ask the question. has anyone broken their gears. i bought the Gearmore gear tiller. chains also stretch the sprockets wear, and they need to be adjusted i hate all the problems associated with chains.

 

[Wall]

I tilled in the red clover cover crop on my garden today. 72" KK tiller and L 4330 HST @ .8 mph 1st pass after one pass with the disk pulled behind my Oliver 550. Having two tractors and the right implements sure make the work a lot easier and a whole lot of fun! I don't think you can go wrong with ether tiller you choose.

 

[HayDR]

IF a chain breaks in a tiller, 70% of the time the chain also damages the side outer case housing and chain adjuster.

 

[Bob_Young]

Thanks, everyone, for the replies. Much to think about here. Printed it all out so I won't lose track of it.

In response to some of the comments/questions:
1)The limited control a gear tractor gives over tiller 'bite' is an issue for me. However, it appears that some have had good luck at speeds my tractor can manage. Encourages me to at least give it a try.

2)My first job for the tiller is to till up about 5 acres of haylot that had been plowed and disked last year but never planted (family problems). Never got it looking the way I wanted before being pulled away. Wasn't doing a good job of breaking up root clumps from the previous surface cover. Since then it's grown up to weeds(did it ever! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif).

I was hoping a tiller might help me get it in better shape quicker this time around than bottom plow and disk. But the comments seem to indicate that it's going to take time to do it right regardless of the method. That being the case, I may just stick with what I have; the bottom plow, new disk and new landscape rake; this year and look into the tiller again later.

3)I'm planning to reseed the haylot to alfalfa and hay it a few years. Don't plan to till it every year.

4)The second job planned for the tiller would be re-grading and re-seeding about 1.25 acres of lawn at my Dad's place; don't want to take a bottom plow to that. I'd like to thank DiskDoc for the detailed notes on how to tackle lawn work with a tiller. It sounds like an approach that'll work in my conditions while limiting damage to the tiller. If I know this kind of care is needed, I'll be more likely to see it through rather than take expensive shortcuts.

5)The rocks here are mostly sandstone, but there's granite, slate and other stuff as well. I think they called it glacial moraine in my H.S. earth science class. They're all pretty durable and I doubt the tiller will break them up. I know the walkbehinds never did.

6)frankv, I think a landscape rake with gage wheels stands the best chance of getting the rocks and leaving the soil. Haven't really tried it myself yet, but it's what I've seen others use. I've got the wheels on my rake.

7)I know Woods equipment is hard to beat and I've been happy with eveything I've bought from them. Since the tiller's utility is somewhat of an open question at this time, I'll probably go with CCM or KK for the lower cost. A lower cost unit will be easier to sell if I decide I don't need it.

8)Creep speed not an option for the L4300, Henro. Researched that when I bought it last year. Would be nice if it did. Oh well, bought the L4300 to plow and disk with, so why not stick to the plan?

Thanks again, everyone, for taking time to respond.
Bob

 

[Zoomie]

I run a 60" King Kutter (gear drive) tiller behind my old Ford 1700, which is a gear drive with separate range selector giving 12 forward speeds.

I can till grassed over packed earth quite easily in 1/1 and re-work previously tilled, but rained on, walked on, etc. in 2/1.

I've un-earthed a few bricks from the old farm house site without any damage to the tiller.

 

[sweettractors]

The First Choice Roto Tillers have automatic chain tensioners. I will not go so far as to say they dont break, However we have sold hundreds of units all across the nation and we have not had a chain to break. In addition, If repair parts are ever needed for First Choice Tillers, you will find multiple vendors that can take care of replacement parts. This is not the case with all Roto Tiller brands.--Ken Sweet

Sweet Farm Equipment LLC *Just traded in, A Kubota 1550 tractor with FEL and 400 HRS for $7995*