Tilt no mo'

[Dargo]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

Along ths line of MadReferee, I have to agree from my welding experience that the weld was wrong. First, with a hardened cylinder, you need a very high heat when welding. Second, you cannot use a general purpose 6013 rod for high strength purposes. I would venture to guess by the looks of the initial pic you put up, that the weld was made with a 6013 rod at an amperage of no more than 120. That would hold it on, and work for most instances. However, when under stress, it will be the first to break. Could it have been part of the design; to break there before breaking a more expensive hydro rod? I don't know.

I would just remember that when you get it welded. I guarantee you I could weld it to where it won't break. However, you may have a more expensive repair if the same situation happened again and the weld didn't break. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif It may be something you want to discuss with whoever you have weld it. I'm sure they can use a much stronger rod with much higher amperage to get proper penetration, but do you want that?

I went and looked in my barn (had to go out there anyway), and the rods I have for welding hardened steel (like your hydro ram) are 9018 rods. My rods are only 1/8", but I burn them at about 230 amps DC when welding hard stuff and I need a good bite. My dad has a much bigger welder, and he can burn 1/4" 9018 rods. I tried one of those rods with my welder all the way up, and there was no way! I guess for your application you definitely wouldn't need a 1/4" rod. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif The best I can tell, they only seem to be needed when you are welding at least 1/2" thick steel together. They make some 1018 rods, but they would likely melt the mild steel fork that goes on the end of the hydro ram. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Bluecheck546]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

Hi, jinman and all. Looking on the picture attached in the first post I think possibly is good thing that the weld broke, possibly saved your cylinder rod. The reason for my way of thinking that is I don't see a swivel on end of the rod, and something had to give. When your implement come loose it was too much sideload for the weld. Someone mentioned about wrong rod being used to weld this clevis in.... True 7018 rod would be better for the weld, but the 6013 is plenty sufficient, when welded right it holds up to 60000 pounds. My2¢. Back in the box i go.

 

[Dargo]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

Bluecheck546, yup, you have the same idea I have. It is very possible that the weld was designed to be the "weak link" in the design.

 

[jinman]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The reason for my way of thinking that is I don't see a swivel on end of the rod, and something had to give. When your implement come loose it was too much sideload for the weld. )</font>

Thanks to everyone again for your suggestions and comments.

I don't think there was a side load at all on the right link. I had my stabilizers pinned and they took any sideload. Also, the top of the tilt cylinder has a ball-link and the bottom a fork just like the factory links. What I think happened was the left side dropped down and twisted the still attached right lift arm around its axis inside the fork. Instead of the fork expanding/widening, the weld on the end of rod broke off. You can see from the attached photo that the cylinder's rod is actually larger (and probably harder) than the OEM link. The fork is also much larger (see attachment). This photo is when I was "fitting up" my tilt cylinder. I replaced the bolt with the proper pin. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It's very hard to guess all the "what ifs" involved, but I don't think you can possibly guess every unusual situation that could come from equipment coming loose. The ideal thing in this case is to get the cylinder repaired (better if possible) and to spend some real thought into making sure my 3PH stays hitched properly in the future. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

BTW: I really do appreciate all the insight into welding rods and their uses. I learn something every time I log onto TBN. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[HayDR]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

Bluecheck546,
I agree that a 7018 is a better choice. Many people use 6013 rods because they are easy to make a good looking weld but a 6011 would be better than a 6013. Turn the heat up to 120+ amps and use DC with a nickel composition rod because the vibration in the application needs the elasticity of the nickel.

 

[Bluecheck546]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

CCi, I appreciate the advice. Newer used the 6011 rod. Mainly because my machine at home is an AC welder and at work I seldom weld anymore, if I do, I use 7018 rod cause the thickness of the material, 3/8 or thicker. Thanks for the info. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[jinman]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

I'm glad you weighed-in on this, Mark. It reminded me that I need to get in touch with you about a new toplink. Mine is just "okay" and I'd much prefer to have one of yours with the piloted check valve and some small 1/4" hoses. I'll try to give you a call tomorrow. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

BTW: Bluecheck, don't you have to keep 7018 rods in an oven or heat them before use to drive off the moisture? How does that equate to ease of use in the field? I thought they were mostly an "in shop" rod, but I'm a real rookie, so I could easily be wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Inspector507]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

6011 is a good penetrating rod and it works okay with AC. Watch out for burn through though /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Dargo]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

I use 7018 rods frequently for somewhat high strength applications. The rods are not really that sensitive. Baking them in an oven is how to try to "repair" some that have absorbed some moisture. I generally do not keep a large supply on hand and just drive a mile down the road to a welding supply house and buy what I need for the project. I've kept some in an aluminum canister for over a year and they worked fine.

 

[Bluecheck546]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

jinman, you are right, those should be keep t in dry container. At work we keep them in special cabinet with a 100 watt light bulb, on 24/7 , Few sticks that I use at home occasionally I keep wrapped in the plastic bag, keep them inside. Have no problem using them this way at all. My2¢ /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif