Timberwolf vs American log splitter

[Boondox]

I'm looking for a new splitter to handle 10-12 cords of hardwood per year. Having had a cheap MTD/Cub Cadet splitter that really didn't stand up to that sort of work, I want a beefy unit this time. I checked out Wallenstein, Timberwolf, and American MSR splitters, all in the ballpark of $2100. The Wallenstein was quickly ruled out as the ergonomics just didn't work for me. The Timberwolf TW-P1 has a great reputation and specs out as follows: 5.5 hp Honda, 24x4x1 3/4 cylinder with 13 sec cycle time, 4.5 gallon hydraulic capacity, 11gpm pump, 4-way wedge and a table grate to catch the chunks so I don't have to bend over so much. The American AM-24HH has the same specs except the cylinder is a 24x4x2, the tank only holds 3.5 gallons of hydraulic fluid, but the frame is 6.5" instead of 5" and it has 13" wheels instead of 8" which raises the bed to a very comfortable height. The construction is very beefy! It's also $150 less than the Timberwolf.

Soooo, is there an advantage to going with the larger cylinder? Is there a disadvantage to the smaller hydraulic reservoir for home use? Has anybody heard of American MSR and how is their reputation...or are well-build splitters of this caliber pretty no-nonsense?

TIA, Pete

 

[MadDog]

Boondox:

I can't say I am anything close to expert on this, but as you may know, I have been designing, and am about to start building, a "build-your-own" splitter.

Probably, the importance of the size of the hydraulic reservoir depends upon how often, and for how long a period of time, you will be using it. The rule of thumb, apparrently, is to have 1 gal reservoir size for each gal/min of pump capacity. The purpose, as I understand it, is to allow oil going through the pump and cylinders at pressure (and thus heating up) to cool down before recycling. A 4.5 gal reservoir is already a bit thin for an 11 gpm pump and 3.5 more so, but if you're not going to be running continuously for too long, it probably doesn't make much difference. Timberwolf is a quality mfr so if they build it that way, it is probably OK for homeowner use. By contrast, I am using a 30gal reservoir with a 28gpm (max) pump.

It probably also makes a difference if you are going to be running and loading the splitter yourself, or will have someone working with you. If just yourself, there will probably be pauses between cycles while you clear split wood or get and load the next log. That gives the fluid more time to cool again.

Cylinder bore diameter is what determines splitting force. Both of the cylinders you mention are 4" bore cylinders. At 2500psi they are capable of generating 31,415# of force or between 15 and 16 tons.

The final figure refers to the diameter of the cylinder rod. Rod diameter determines both the strength of the rod (and its resistance to bending under pressure) and the speed at which the ram retracts (since on the retraction stroke, the pump does not have to fill the cylinder volume taken up by the rod). 1 3/4 means a 1 3/4" diam rod. A 2" rod is a bit thicker and stronger and retracts faster with the same fluid flow. A standard quality 4" bore cylinder, rated for 2500psi, typically comes with a 1 1/2" to 2" rod. Top quality welded 3000psi cylinders come with 2" to 2 1/4" rods. Were it me, I'd prefer the 2" rod, particularly if you are going to be splitting a lot of twisted or knotty stuff that is apt to require maximum force.

There are trade-offs between these two models. Which is better for you depends upon your anticipated use.

Or you could, of course, for just a bit more than you are about to spend on a ready-made, build yourself (see thread on "PTO splitter" on "build it yourself" Board) a "beast" of a splitter like I am building. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hope this helps.

 

[rozett]

Pete, One thing that you didn't mention in the specs was the splitting force. If they are equal force (mine's 24 ton), then the unit with the smaller cylinder diameter would have to use a higher hydraulic pressure. The difference in fluid capacity should not matter, except maybe for fluid temperature. If the surface area of the reservoir on the American is larger than the Timberwolf, then I wouldn't worry about it. The only issue with tire size would be road travel. If you're going to moving the splitter on the roads, the larger wheels are definitely better. If your only going to be using it on your estate, then it's not a big deal. Although the 13" wheels will mean more ground clearance.

When I was looking for a splitter, I felt that the Timberwolf was the best one out there. But in the end, I opted to buy a slightly used Yard Machines/MTD splitter with 6 HP and 24 ton force. I've split 140 cords of hardwood in the last 24 months without any major problems. Paid about 25% of what the Timberwolf would have cost me.

 

[Boondox]

Mad Dog -- Thanks for responding! I have been following the 3PH splitter thread and greatly admire the skills that permit you to tackle such a project, but I'm not there yet. Not even close! I might, however, at some future date, have a larger hydraulic reservoir fabricated and install it myself.

I worry about the strength of the cylinder rod, so appreciated you input on that especially. Most hardwood splits pretty easily in cold weather (10F or less is ideal) but now and then I come up against a knotty piece of white birch which is fibrous and very stubborn wood. More often I split sugar maple, and some of those knots are pretty impressive!

I get the impression a splitter's rated force is computed somewhat like Craftsman figures out its peak HP. Fuzzy math, it sounds like.

Thanks again. Pete

 

[jpm]

pete i think the timberwolfs are made in ludlow vt so for a ride in the mini you can check them out in person

 

[GregMVT]

The address for Timberwolf, on their website, is 118 Spruce St. Rutland, VT. I am not sure if this is just their office or plant too. When I bought mine the store said when they run low they just run over to Rutland to get more. I have had my Timberwolf for a little over 2 years and think it's a great machine!!

 

[Knight9]

Pete,

That's a lot of wood to split. Why don't you check out the splitter I got. It has a faster split cycle than the traditional hydraulic ram. You can see it at Gripo

Kevin

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Hi Pete -

I have an American splitter with an 8 HP Kohler Magnum engine. Not sure of the GPM - 16 maybe? Anyway, I've been very impressed with it, very nice machine. Timberwolf splitters are of course legendary, can't/won't say anything bad about them. A friend of mine has the TW-6 with an 18 or 20 HP Honda engine, 28 GPM pump, hydraulic 6-way wedge and hydraulic lift. He of course loves it, but then again it was about $6,500 (picked up at the factory).

I don't think you can go wrong with either the Timberwolf or the American, but the 2" rod on the American might be nice to have.

Good luck with your decision,

John

 

[arthr31]

Hi Boondox,

I looked at splittlers from both American and Timberwolf last summer. I ended up with the TW-P1 from Timberwolf. It's a great unit, I've probably split about 6-7 cords in the last six months and everything is fine... What I do wish is the following: the return time on the cylinder was quicker and that the wheels were larger.

I don't think you'd go wrong with either maker, I went with the timberwolf for local support, industrial design/build, and options that I might add in the future (e.g. log cradle). Also, I can say that all of the folks (three ppl) that I talked with at Timberwolf were real nicepeople too /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
good luck -art

 

[Boondox]

Art -- The TW-P1 is one of the two finalists. Spec for spec that splitter and the American MSR 24-HH are virtually identical, though the TW has a better finish on it. The one substantial differences are (1) the MSR has a solid table vs a grating for the TW, and (2) the MSR has 13" wheels that roll over obstructions better and raise the splitter to a more comfortable working height. For me, most of the discomfort associated with splitting is being bent over for hours on end. (3) Both have 24x4 hydraulic cylinders, but the TW has a 1 3/4" cylinder rod while the MSR is a full 2". Figured with my knotty maple and birch the larger rod would be more durable.

But you're right. The staff at Timberwolf are wonderful!

Pete

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Pete -

It's interesting (and good) that the American comes with 13" wheels. Mine came with 8" wheels that made it pretty tough to move around - switching to 12" wheels made a huge difference.

Lastly - I had the luxury of buying my 8HP American "used" for $750, and I know that money doesn't grow on trees, but ... maybe just try to make sure you're going to be happy with 5.5 HP instead of the next size up. For the relatively small amount of splitting you'll be doing, you should be just fine with the 5.5 - but don't forget to take into account the possible needs of all your friends who'll be borrowing it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

John

 

[arthr31]

hi Pete,

I haven't found anything that the TW hasn't be able to split. The worst / toughest thing I've split to date has been a really gnarly mid-trunk (2 - way Y section) of rock maple. Before the splitter I only split using hand tools. This particular peice had been on the bench for over two years- I tried to split with maul (many times it'd bounce off and cause real bad vibration in my body!), flat wedge, and a wood grenade. The wood grenade broke in half trying to split this guy.... The TW struggled for about 5 or so seconds and popped it in half.

The biggest (small) problem I have with the TW splitter is the smallish wheels too... I was told that I shouldn't go over 45mph with it attached to my truck, and it is a bit low... Right now I have it proped on some blocks to raise the height 18 inches or so... I also liked the idea of buying a product made in NE, especially from VT. And it helped that it (as a product) was about as good as I could/can get... good luck !

 

[escavader]

HI PETE
One thing id like to mention is the design.If your gonna tow this splitter behind an atv,tractor or what not,you want the wood to come off the back of it,so it doesnt land between the splitter and tow rig,or you will always be throwing it out of the way.I pull mine with my atv,it now comes off the back,It will actually push itself up into a pile,and when it wont no more,i simply pull ahead a couple ft.I dont handle the wood only to load the splitter,im chasing the next peice while the ram is returning.Its the kids job to haul it to the shed,let them pick it up /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif it gives them a chance to play truck driver with moms atv :grin
Personally u wouldnt want one that worked vertical,alot of being bent over,id go all horizontal.Get one with a log lift,if you think your gonna do big stuff.A nice big v tray for the wood to SLIDE in is nice ,so they dont fall on the ground[in CASE YOU NEED TO RESPLIT] the next peice will push em off.
Personally i dont think ,id like a 4 way wedge either,it would never come out the size id like it.AUTOMATIC DETENT,a must,2 stage a must,but im sure you already know this from experience. Also high enough so your standing up straight when you are splitting ,easier on the backI do 5 cord a year,if i was gonna do as much as you,id have an inclining conveyor belt,easy to build one.Good luck
ALAN

 

[Boondox]

Alan -- I agree with just about every point you made, and have already configured it mostly that way. No log lift, as it takes up so much space I could only work on one side, and I'm getting a 4-way that slides over the wedge for easy on and off. Off for the big or small pieces. On for the majority of my wood, which is about the diameter of a telephone pole and quarters perfectly with a 4-way. It'll split off the back onto a tray so I can split smaller if need be...and with the splitter backed right up to the woodshed the ready pieces will simply drop right next to where they need to be stacked. My little Cub Cadet splitter (which sold last night -- yeah!) was 18" from ground to frame so I was always bent over. The American MSR I ordered is 25" tall to save my aching back.

Thanks for all your input! Pete

 

[GregMVT]

Art, I was told not to go over 45 mph too when I picked up my TW. However the reason for it is that there is no suspension, the axles are attached to the hydraulic tank. Not something I would want to crack. It hasn't left my property since I brought it home 2+ years ago and I only move it with the tractor or atv now.

Greg