Time to 'fess up

[Kevin37]

Time to \'fess up

Greetings......I figured it was time to register since I've been lurking in the shadows of these discussions for a couple of weeks and soaking up as much information as I could! I never would have imagined how addictive this forum is had I not been on to see for myself. So now I'm the Newbie..to the forum and to CUT's.
I am shopping for my first real tractor to use on a 25 acre lot of which about 13 is field, the rest wooded. I seem to have settled into either a JD 4710 or Kubota L4630, based on my own research and reading these posts. My first of many questions is about pricing. Has anyone ever used one of the dealers listed on this site to price and purchase a tractor, or shopped the internet to find a great price. My local JD and Kubota dealers sure didn't seem too interested in negotiating price. Like anyone else, I don't expect them to give up all their profit, but full retail in the days of internet and invoice shopping seems a bit much. Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[AndyM]

Re: Time to \'fess up

Of course price was an important factor on the New Holland TC18 I just bought. Corriher's in NC says they can send me a tractor including shipping costs for less than I could buy one locally around here with sales tax. After shopping around, I found that was true. However, I also decided ahead of time it was worth paying $200 more to buy from my local dealer 5 miles away. Unfortunately, they were about $400 more. I went to a dealer 20 miles away and they were $200 more than Corriher's, so I took this price to my local guy and he matched it. Corriher's are great to deal with, but when it comes to future service in the long run (warranty work, etc.), I felt it was better to buy from the local guy.

 

[beenthere]

Re: Time to \'fess up

Kevin
Who pays the dealer to keep his doors open so you can have parts and help available to you if and when you purchase 'on-line', and then need some help understanding or fixing what you bought?

I want my dealer to stay in business, as he has come in very handy and helpful in the last 4 years I have had my Deere 4300. So far, this CUT has functioned without problems to me, but thankfully a couple warranty items were taken care of without fuss. I'll bet neither item would have been "happily" taken care of, if at all, had I purchased this tractor on-line (and they "know" from where it came). /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You have some hard decisions ahead of you. Good luck!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[pruntyc]

Re: Time to \'fess up

I don't believe he only makes money on the tractor and not the parts. He is paid by the company if its under warranty, and if not you have to pay him. So if he wouldnt' give you service you could report him the the company. He is suppose to do it. That is what a lot of dealer are trying to convince people so that they will buy from him and probably pay a lot more. And there won't be enough people buy off line to make him go out of business, unless he don't already have much business.

 

[Kevin37]

Re: Time to \'fess up

Tractor, FEL, 6'cutter...price about $26,000. That's a whole lot of money in my world. To walk in and just say "Okay, I'll take it, heres your check" doesn't seem very prudent without shopping a little. Again, I will stress.." I don't expect them to give up all their profit" I want my dealer to be around also, but it's a two way street. He must know that if he helps out on his side then I will return for years to come for all of my subsequent purchases of implements, accessories, and tractor knick-knacks. Not to mention any service I would require through the years. Ironically, it's these areas that I would guess dealers really make their profits. If they operate anything like auto dealers, then any warranty work is billed to the manufacturer at full shop and parts rates. Any general service is also a good profit margin as is all the little things and accessories guys like me can't help but buy everytime we walk in a place like a dealership / showroom. I'm not looking to steal anything, just a fair deal. Would I drive 500 miles to save $500? No way. Would I drive 30 miles to the next town to save $500 because my local dealer wouldn't compete with the price? Absolutely...the hard decisions aren't just mine, but my dealers as well. How much of my business will be lost over the next 20 years because the guy in the neighboring town was more fair to me during my initial tractor purchase?

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Re: Time to \'fess up

Your thinking makes a lot of sense! I learned a lot fro others about the mess that could hapen from buying from a dealer that you could not practically use for service. Look up blurrybill for starters, he makes no bones about the mess it caused him. And I have been down the no supprt road, too. You want a dealer to back you up.

Deere, and I believe, Kubota have great dealer locators on their websites. Usethem to locate area dealers that you would be willing to use for ongoing service, and send out bid requests. It is a common business practice, and you are very likely to find a dealer who wants your busines as much as you want his service.

Dealers are not required to give identical service to customers who don't buy from them. It may be good busiess practice. There are countless ways that a dealer can reward their customers. The manufacturer wants sales to customers who will be taken care of..They don't want dealers selling out of the area that they can service, and for good reason. They whole idea of having authorized dealers is to assure that customers are taken care of.

Warrenty isn't the cash cow for dealers that it used to be, and sales quotas must be met to keep the sign lit.

But you don't have to overpay, either. Look around, you may be surprised.

Don't forget to check on similar models, for example what if a dealer has a JD4610, with a super deal. Would that work for you?

 

[Chipperman]

Re: Time to \'fess up

Sorry guys please do not take offense but I could not let this go without responding.

pruntyc

To your first statement.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't believe he only makes money on the tractor and not the parts. )</font>

Unless the dealer is just foolish he most definitely makes money on NON warranty sale of parts.

To your second statement

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( He is paid by the company if its under warranty )</font>

For service under warranty dealers may or may not get paid above their cost for parts. But when you combine the parts and labor (including overhead) in the tractor industry dealers are very, very lucky to break even. On average warranty is NOT a money making proposition. I would take that one step further to say (and I have no idea what you do or who you are. You may be the nicest guy in the whole world). I would bet money if you switched places with a dealer and had to do warranty for customers (especially ones who bought their equipment else ware) you would quickly have a change of opinion.

Again, I am NOT trying to pick on anyone or upset anyone but you can not understand what it is like if you have not walked in someone else’s shoes. I think dealers deserve more credit for the hard work (and sometimes thankless work) they put in to please customers. My self included, their is nothing more satisfying then a happy customer.
Sincerely,
Chipperman

 

[markie61]

Re: Time to \'fess up

Hey, Kev:
Welcome to TBN.
I'm pretty familiar with all the dealers within 75 miles of Fairfax County. If you've been to the closest JD and Kub dealers, I not surprised at the prices you were quoted being high. You WILL, in fact, save significantly by shopping around in a 50 mile radius. I was VERY specific in what I wanted, put together a written list, and handed it to about 30 dealers. I was also very emphatic that I was ready to BUY. I was surprised by some of the long-distance quotes being higher than I thought they would be. And some locals were lower than the nationals. I bought my tractor from a dealer 40 miles away and saved quite a bit.
If you need any specific advice, send me PM.
Mark
PS I gave my closest dealer (less than 2 miles) one final chance to come close on a L4330 or L3830, but he wouldn't deal....

 

[thcri]

Re: Time to \'fess up

Chipperman,

Owning a Mechanical Contracting business I agree with you. Service is something the manufacturers for the most part don't pay you very well. Parts are usually at cost, labor rates are capped and only pay so many hours per task. So when someone calls me and says, will you take care of my air conditioner even if your competitor sold it, I usually tell them when the warranty is over I will be glad to service it but not until the warranty is over.

I don't believe in buying something over the internet unless I can do the service myself. A tractor even if there was a $1,000 savings I still think I would buy local. Another thing you have to think of is if you do need service and you find a local dealer to take care of it I would tend to wonder when he would get around to it especially when he has his own reliable customers that would always come first.

Just my opinion, there is more to a sale then just getting the best price.

murph

 

[chim]

Re: Time to \'fess up

When I bought my tractor last year I went to three Kubota dealers within easy driving distance (5, 20 and 30 minutes from home). There was a $1,500.00 spread between high and low on the same identical tractor & FEL..................chim

 

[OkeeDon]

Re: Time to \'fess up

I was in the high-end bbq grill business; not uncommon to sell grills in the $2K - $5K range. Nearby dealers cut their prices a lot more than me. Customers who bought on price alone went to them. When they came to me for service, I always asked, "Why don't you get it serviced where you bought it?" The answer was usually something like, "They didn't know what they were doing and screwed it up." My reply, "Don't you think that expertise and training come at a price?"

Then, I would go ahead and fix their grill, but I cut absolutely no corners. Most grills come with a parts-only warranty. Those customers who bought somewhere else for price were charged every penny that I was entitled to charge for the labor, including pickup and delivery charges, travel time, shop supplies and anything else I could charge and still sleep at night. If there was any doubt as the to cause of the problem, I strictly adhered to the "book" on the parts. If the owner's manual called for annual cleaning of the burner, for example, and I could see the owner had never cleaned it, the owner paid for the part, not the warranty.

My own customers were given more of the benefit of the doubt. If you want good, expert service, you'll pay for it, one way or the other. When I bought my tractor, I bought it from the local dealer who I knew would treat me the same way. I paid more for the tractor, but I have come out ahead, already.

If my local dealer had a rotten reputation or treated me badly, I would likely have paid more to buy it further away. The tractor itself is just part of the ownership experience. The other part is support.

Of course, if you do all your own maintenance, and never have anything break, buying on price alone is probably OK.

 

[bgott]

Re: Time to \'fess up

A little trick to get the best price...buy on the last day of the month. Most sales organizations will do just about anything to squeek in that last sale before they close out the month.

 

[BLUEBONNET2]

Re: Time to \'fess up

take a look see and drive a Century. Good CUT and pricing is very attractive.... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
for that size property 30-40 hp will be plenty, FEL is really EZ off/EZ on, beefy too.....

good luck,

bluebonnet2

 

[knucklehead]

Re: Time to \'fess up

Very well stated, Don! That has been my experience as a consumer. Maybe this is too "philosophical" and drifting a little away from our new poster's original theme (welcome, Kev!), but I keep the Old Golden Rule in mind when dealing with people in business as well as personally. That relationship goes both ways, and the dealer sees a lot of people, and I'll bet makes a fairly accurate judgement about what kind of person he's dealing (or not) with. I've always been stumped by how some of my otherwise lovely and sweet friends can turn into dragons when they enter a dealership of any kind.

We've always paid a few cents more for our oil, but we've made it back in service and in little deals here and there (shaved labor hours, parts and other purchases at cost, etc.). I had a brief and torrid affair with the Big Orange Box up on the hill several towns over, but am back to the faithful and forgiving local lumber dealer. He has saved me more $$ over time by understanding what I was doing and making suggestions, even though I could knock a few cents off most purchases by driving farther and standing in line forever. I still fight that feeling that I'm getting bled a little when I pay, but I get things done faster & make less trips. I bought a mower just yesterday from a dealer and paid more than I could have at Sears, Wally World or even with my Hot Orange honey on the hill, but I know that I will be keeping that unit for as long as possible, and he will be making money on parts (or not, if a little advice will do the trick) as he continues to "own" that mower. Same thing for my saw (soon to be saws I hope).

I do not think full retail is necessary, either, Kevin. As you have no doubt read on other threads, it is the dealer attitude that makes the sale. Maybe it's not really price that is making you hesitate but the attitude you are getting from them. I wonder if dealers are getting overwhelmed with the traffic of prospective CUT owners and are having a hard time adjusting to doing business with them. It's a different crowd from the farmers.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Re: Time to \'fess up

Kevin, you are doing all the right things. I still recommend trying to find the dealer who is close and will "bend over backwards" to help. They may have to come out to fix a "simple thing" and if you are not in good favor, you will end up paying more in the long run.
I can vouch for my JD dealer here in south central Texas. I am surprised by how cheap many of the parts are. Yes, I actually said they are cheap. I'm sure some dealers are higher. I used to sell parts for a Jap M/C dealer and we used a higher price matrix that the surrounding dealers came up with.
For instance,
Brand new blades for my shredder= $32. or $52 installed. These things weigh probably 10 lbs each.
Heck, a flimsy blade for my Snapper was $24 and it might weigh 2 lbs.
There are many other things I have bought from them and wondered how can they stay in business selling at these prices? I could go on and on.
I want a 4710 too. I'll get a price from my dealer and post it here in a couple of days. Just so you can compare.
Kyle

 

[riptides]

Re: Time to \'fess up

Kevin,

I'd be interested in your location. There are numerous dealers in the area. But i'd like to hear who you have been talking too. You can send a PM. For a specific brand and dealer I can PM you my experiance. Still favorable.

HTH
-Mike Z.
Part of Northern VA. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[rjsmit1]

Re: Time to \'fess up

I just bought a Kubota L4330 hydro a few months ago. I have enjoyed every minute of operation and was glad to have made the purchase. I feel like I got a good deal on the tractor by shopping a couple of dealerships to get a feel for the tractors and options and implements. I ended up buying the items in the signature below for what I think was a good price from Byrd Tractor in Manassas. After deciding what I wanted, I faxed a request for quotation to a half dozen dealers in the area including the model, options and implements. The responses included a range of total price of about $1,000 if I remember correctly. At the end of the day, it came down to location, perceived responsiveness to needs and other intangibles.

I am sort of surprised that the dealers are not being competitive, but it is possible that their inventory is drying up compared to when I ordered mine and they have less incentive to cut prices. In support of that, it seems like we are seeing a fair number of people who are posting that they are having trouble finding the tractor that they want in inventory or on a dealer trade. Presumably, it is because Kubota underestimated the response to their zero percent financing deal and didn't make enough tractors. (The financing helped me to get going sooner...)

Also, a side note on the L4330 versus the L4630. If you study the specs, you may conclude what I did, which is the 4630 is not worth the extra money. It has the same frame, engine displacement and peak torque, just a higher peak HP rating because it has a higher rated engine speed. I believe that there are no other differences. I would have only taken the 4630 if the 4330 had not been available. If bigger than the 4330 were necessary, I would easily and gladly jump to the 5030!

Either way, good luck in your search and let us know what you end up deciding.