K5lwq
Elite Member
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- Aug 6, 2017
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- Mineola, TX
- Tractor
- Kioti LK2554, Branson 4815C, Satoh Beaver, Speedex
Man, I have no idea about the springs. But it sounds like you have the engine timing correct. Good Job!
Timing a Kioti CK20S from crank
- Thread starter Billself
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- kioti ck20s
justman777
Platinum Member
Success! Or some degree thereof. Congrats!
Thanks I appreciate that. It was a job like no other but I'm glad it's running. May not be perfect but good enough to give me courage to continue working on it until it is as good as I can get it. A little light at the end of a tunnel can sure make a difference on the spirits
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
Looking at several Kioti manuals, it looks like the older models had matching dots on the gears to indicate correct timing. On some newer ones it looks like there are holes in the gears and a matching sockets in the block that align (using pins) when timing is right.
The traditional (mechanical injection pump) "throttle" uses a lever/fork that is pushed aft (less fuel) by the centrifugal governor and pulled forward by two springs that are hooked to a bell-crank that is moved by the throttle cables (hand and foot throttles). The injection pump rack moves freely under light spring pressure (from the backside of the IP) until it rests against the lever/fork. This assumes the stop solenoid (which forces the rack full aft/off) is retracted/energized. The small spring goes inside the larger one.
The page below (a different but similar model) may may (or may not) help.
View attachment Section 2 Engine.pdf
The traditional (mechanical injection pump) "throttle" uses a lever/fork that is pushed aft (less fuel) by the centrifugal governor and pulled forward by two springs that are hooked to a bell-crank that is moved by the throttle cables (hand and foot throttles). The injection pump rack moves freely under light spring pressure (from the backside of the IP) until it rests against the lever/fork. This assumes the stop solenoid (which forces the rack full aft/off) is retracted/energized. The small spring goes inside the larger one.
The page below (a different but similar model) may may (or may not) help.
View attachment Section 2 Engine.pdf
I have it running and I think the govener might not be adjusted properly or I might have the timing off by a tooth on the crank. The crank gear is the only one with no markings on it at all no holes,lines anything. What I think is somebody before me had the gear off crank or replaced it. I searched for anything to indicate a timing Mark but nothing so it might be possible I got it wrong but the start up it seems easy but the govener revs up to around 15grand on tac then if you hit foot throttle it settles down or drops to 800 then steady at around 1100 rpm seems high to me I'd like it to run about 900 but I haven't taken the spring plates off to see if there sticking on anything or if I got them in wrong position. But as soon as my wife heals up from her surgery I'll tear into it again and let you know what I find thank you for your help I may need a lot more before it's running like it should
My kioti is a CK20S. 2010 with 600hrs on it. I don't know much about it other than it ran fine until I broke the fuel cam it does have a electric solenoid in front for fuel open and closing I also noticed at the rod on the back of fuel injector holder was a spring actuated rod that puts slight pressure on fuel solenoid for when the key is turned on it opens up to let fuel through the rod that's on back of injector housing was bent a little to where it was sticking and wouldn't allow spring to push lever out so the solenoid would let fuel by to injectors so I straightened it and filed it so it would work smoothly to push the rod to allow fuel to injectors. Other than that I just tried to put it in time and insert the springs correctly but somewhere along the line. When started it revs high then you hit the throttle peddle and it goes down like it wants to idle down but then comes back up to 1500 or so after it warms up it still idles high around 1100 to 1400. I never adjusted any screws or reshimed anything so the only thing I can come up with is either I didn't get the springs right or I got it one or two teeth off on my timing. However I notice it don't run the way it did. I don't know which way to go on this. Could it be springs aren't in the right position I know one goes inside of other and I know they hook in at throttle lever opposite of each other. And the big spring has slack at back with hook on it but I don't know if it's towards front or towards back. But I can figure why high idle when it starts easy
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
It might help if I explain how the injection system works. Injectors screw into the head (like a spark plug) and connect to the injection pump (IP) with metal tubes. The injection pump (IP) has a plunger for each engine cylinder and those plungers are driven up and down by the cams on the fuel camshaft. These plungers develop a couple thousand psi fuel pressure which "pops" the associated injector to spray atomized fuel into the cylinder (actually into a pre-chamber). Injection always starts at the same piston location (degrees BTDC) but a rack in the IP determines when injection stops, i.e., the amount of fuel injected. More fuel equals more power (up to a point). Neches posted a great description and rebuild piece on the IP.
Now the IP has a toothed "rack" that moves forward and aft. With the rack in the full aft position, injection stops before it starts; no fuel is injected. The stop solenoid pushes the rack full aft, meaning the engine gets zero fuel. With the stop solenoid retracted (key to ON) the rack slides smoothly forward until a pin on the rack rests against the fork. More fuel is injected the farther forward the rack moves. As the engine starts and RPM increases the centrifugal governor pushes the rack aft (against the throttle springs) to regulate fuel to maintain the desired RPM, according to throttle position.
I think you should remove the "oil fill" cover plate and turn the key to ON (but don't crank the engine) or remove the stop solenoid. Then reach into the cover-plate hole with a finger and feel if the rack moves smoothly. It should be full forward resting against the fork at this point. If the rack moves smoothly, keep looking elsewhere. But if the rack sticks you have a problem in the IP (probably a broken gear) or in the spring assembly behind the IP. You can remove (unscrew) that spring assembly to isolate stickiness to the spring or IP. I tend to suspect the spring assembly because I thought the IP gear problem was fixed by 2000, but you never know. The sticky post at the top of this section links to a page describing owners' experience with IP gear breakage.
Having said all this, I don't know how to check cam gear timing without the alignment marks.
Now the IP has a toothed "rack" that moves forward and aft. With the rack in the full aft position, injection stops before it starts; no fuel is injected. The stop solenoid pushes the rack full aft, meaning the engine gets zero fuel. With the stop solenoid retracted (key to ON) the rack slides smoothly forward until a pin on the rack rests against the fork. More fuel is injected the farther forward the rack moves. As the engine starts and RPM increases the centrifugal governor pushes the rack aft (against the throttle springs) to regulate fuel to maintain the desired RPM, according to throttle position.
I think you should remove the "oil fill" cover plate and turn the key to ON (but don't crank the engine) or remove the stop solenoid. Then reach into the cover-plate hole with a finger and feel if the rack moves smoothly. It should be full forward resting against the fork at this point. If the rack moves smoothly, keep looking elsewhere. But if the rack sticks you have a problem in the IP (probably a broken gear) or in the spring assembly behind the IP. You can remove (unscrew) that spring assembly to isolate stickiness to the spring or IP. I tend to suspect the spring assembly because I thought the IP gear problem was fixed by 2000, but you never know. The sticky post at the top of this section links to a page describing owners' experience with IP gear breakage.
Having said all this, I don't know how to check cam gear timing without the alignment marks.
Well I know the solenoid is working and I can slide the ip pin in and comes back out smoothly. I timed it with the 2 and the 3 marks on the gears but the number 1 wasn't on the crank gear so I took a piece of wire and felt for TDC when I felt it at the top I installed the idle gear. I might have gotten it at the wrong time because of the TDC with the wire is pretty sketchy it's possible I might have not gotten it true TDC. Is it supposed to be before or after TDC using clock wise turning. Like might be 2 teeth after top dead center or something like that or is it supposed to be dead on at TDC? Also can I get the big spring turned wrong I know the hook goes on throttle lever but the way it hooks in back can be turned tip hook in or tip hook out???
Sorry for my ignorance on these type systems I'm used to old Massey 35 diesel and old gas tractors. So it takes me some time to understand why these type diesel tractors are this complicated. But I'll get if you can bear with me
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
Actually, I'm amazed at the work you have done.
Diesels are different from gas engines in many important ways; for example, (most) Diesels don't have a real throttle (restriction) to meter incoming air. We all need to start learning somewhere. I had two diesel boats and two Diesel cars (all with mechanical injection) before I got a tractor. On the other hand, I have no experience with the new computer-controlled common-rail systems, and I like it that way.
I think your engine has a timing window in the flywheel cover and #1 piston is at TDC when the "1 TC" mark on the flywheel aligns with the index on the cover. The online parts manual illustrations show some things better than the older service manuals.
I sent you a private message that may help.
