TIP'N'TILT

JATO_RaT · Jan 6, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT

Hey Harv, I really would need a 4 spool valve to do a decent job. I will also have hydraulic activated rippers. I may go with a single tilt cylinder on the right side, but the hydraulic cylinder for the rippers is a must for me. Without the double tilt cylinders, I could stick with a 3 spool valve. The nice thing about the hydraulic rippers beyond the obvious ability to activate them on command is the ability to use them "like a rake" when clearing small brush. I engage the rippers when I want to collect sticks etc. and disengage them at the drop off point. Of all the features I really love on my tractor, the ability to "top" or in the case on this forum "tip" my box scraper. It is the bread and butter and the one function I would select first if I had only 1 choice. Rat...

JATO_RaT · Jan 6, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT

One more thing Harv, having the hydraulic setup for the rippers also provides you with an extra set of hoses and couplers for other implements. That is, since the hydraulic cylinders for top and tilt are connected directly to the tractor, there is no need for those to be quick coupled since you will not disconnect them. However for the ripper hydraulics, you will most likely use quick couplers since that cylinder is located on the implement. When you drop the box scraper, you now have hydraulics for other implements. I have to such implements that hook right onto that 3rd hydraulic quick connect set. One is a post digger with down pressure and the other an 8' power landscape rake that actually has 3 functions that get supplied by that 3rd spool all of which are controlled by yet one more switch on my tractor by a 3 position electric switch that activates a 3 unit hyraulic solenoid on the rake. Its a great setup. Rat...
P.S. I think to many of us Kubota guys are clogging up the NH site

Bird · Jan 6, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT

Harv, I went with the Sony Mavica MVC-FD73 that I had asked about. After a lot of surfing, it appeared they're selling for $350 to $400 on eBay (MSRP $599/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif), and you can order a new one direct from Sony for $399 so I did. And I've never bought or sold anything on an auction site, but listing my other camera equipment on eBay is just what I plan to do when I get the digital camera and can post pictures of the cameras and all the accessories.

Larry, you're right; the best, and probably cheapest, way is to include it in the deal when you buy the tractor. I didn't contact your dealer when I finally found a local dealer who could get the components (and I liked the idea of them all being the same brand for simplicity).

Bird

caddison · Jan 6, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT

Hello Bird, The price I got was just for the valve and outlets. We didn't even get to the cylinders. Funny thing was you can get a "kit" for the newer NH tractors for $200 and change. I felt discriminated upon /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif!! My poor 'ol 98 1320 with a 130 hrs. is outdated stuff. Do you know of a good source as a secondary option for hydraulics? A lot of this is new to me and I find it fascinating.

After blading a lot of snow I can see where the TNT would be a great asset, especially on the road in front of my house.

Maybe someone will have something at the Farm show. Thanks!---Cliff

Harv · Jan 6, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT

Rat -

Man, you've got some nice tools to hang on your beefy 'bota. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

It occurs to me that you live within driving distance from me. If I find myself heading near your direction I'll let you know, and maybe we could do a photo shoot. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

RobertN · Jan 7, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT

I talked to Kubota and independant shops about this before starting to collect my own parts. For a complete system, they were pretty consistant at $800-900.

One thing to think about, is the kits they sell are pretty well matched, and are complete. By the time we figure out the right parts, order them, tweak on them, adjust them, get too short of a hose twice, ect, ect, that Dealer price doesn't sounds so bad....

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

JohnT · Jan 15, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT

Well this is what I'm thinking for achieving Tip-N-Tilt for my TC-45D. On the TC-45D there are 3 slot available to the right of the driver. These slots are part of the control panel/cluster for the 3pt. My owners manual states that each of slots is for controlling a single spool valve. In each case, moving the control forward is for extending a cylinder and pulling it back is for retracting the cylinder. The plumbing for each control/valve terminates in 1/2" quick connect that is positioned conviently high on the rear of the tractor (around the top of the center link in gang fashion). My way of thinking is that with these controls/valves installed, I could purchase my own cylinders (appropriate one's) for the center link and left 3pt arm, then plumb them up to the quick connects with my own hoses. I would look good and be appropriately positioned for box scrapper work? I would also have the 3rd installed, although I haven't come up with a concrete use for it at this stage.

All are welcome to comment and make recommendations... including orange guys!

markcg2000 · Jan 15, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT

JohnT,
So you're saying the TC45 has a location for three unique valves? Man, that's great - seems that placement for auxilliary valves is half the problem on compacts.
You don't actually have the valves, right? Seems to me that your idea is perfect. Only thing I wonder is why the quick-connects? Does the "kit" only come with the quick disconnects? As pointed out earlier, the TNT is always connected and would not need the QC type attachment. Course, getting unique ends for your application probably wouldn't be worth the cost, eh?/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Have you priced (from your dealer, I assume) these out? Since they are individual, maybe just get the two for now and only add the third when you find the need... saves on the cash flow /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

mark

JohnT · Jan 15, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT

Mark,

You got the picture... in addition there are 2 other free slots to the left of the driver. No, I don't actually have the valves at this time. From what I gather, the NH remote kits (control/valves) include the quick connects. I agree TNT would normally always be connect, but since I have an 5 year Extended Warranty, that would cover these kits, I may just go with them. Beside I like the idea easily disconnecting/replacing hydra hoses? I believe each remote kit goes for $250.00. I assume there would be an installation charge. So far my dealer has been willing to negotiate and cost effective. Yeah, from everything I've read location and access to remote valves has been a real problem for many guys. If this is a workable solution they wouldn't be an issue in my case. Of course it would really be a clean and slick way to go.

Lastly, there is a separate and unique location for draft control on my TC-45D. Do you know if draft control aids in the use of a box scraper/scarifier? It's kind of pricey... $500.00! I have lots of landscaping, leveling, and general movin of dirt to do the next couple of years. Comments!

Bird · Jan 15, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT

JohnT, I think you've already got the right idea. The New Holland does have an advantage over the Kubota in having those extra slots. And the quick connects are the best way to go because you may want to use some other hydraulic implement on the rear. In my case, I didn't use quick connects because my little tractor doesn't have an adequate flow volume to handle many other implements so I knew I'd just be leaving the hydraulic tip 'n tilt hooked up all the time.

Bird

JATO_RaT · Jan 31, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT, TOP\'N\'TILT

John, you have been visiting the Orange posts, its obvious because, I believe that its pretty standard in the industry to refer to it as "TOP N TILT" as all dealers I have spoken to and even the Kubota brochures call it. Bird has refered to it as Tip N Tilt, which is perhaps a little more understandable, since in effect you are tipping the box forward or backward. In the end, it really makes little difference. It took me awhile to learn what a FEL was. Figured it was some fancy schmancy device you put on the rear end only to find out it was a front end loader. I thought where the heck is the loader going to be but on the front end, then saw a loader on the rear end, some English model I believe. Guess that would make it a REL. The bottom line is, Top, Tip, Tilt, its not just nice, its absolutely necessary once you have used it. I ordered a 72" Gearmore hydraulic ripper box today. Rat...

JohnT · Jan 31, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT, TOP\'N\'TILT

Rat, you found me out..... don't tell the other blue guy I frequent the Orange forum. Wow... a 72" Hydra Gillmore. I'm sure that cost you a pretty penny! I suspect you must be making money with your rig. I've got a Woods HD 72" box scraper with manual scarifiers and hinged back blade. I happy with it for my use. My dealer given me $950.00 price for adding 3 remote valves to the rear of my TC-45D (all plumbing and quick connects included & installed). I'll use 2 for TNT and the other for ..... whatever? Course, I still have to buy the cylinders. My TC will support a draft control. Do you have any experience or comments on using draft control with a box scraper? Is there any benefit?

Bird · Jan 31, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT, TOP\'N\'TILT

standard in the industry to refer to it as "TOP N TILT" as all dealers I have spoken to and even the Kubota brochures call it. Bird has refered to it as Tip N Tilt

I didn't even know there was any standard; I think I just picked up the Tip 'N Tilt somewhere here on the forum (or did I make a typing mistake?)/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Bird

Harv · Feb 1, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT, TOP\'N\'TILT

Originally, it was called "rock 'n' roll".

JATO_RaT · Feb 1, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT, TOP\'N\'TILT

Always happy to point out someones flaws Bird, it makes me so much more comfortable with all of mine. Its true though, I picked up a Gearmore catalog and there its was again "Our top n tilt package includes". Then last week I'm getting the info on my new box scraper and the man asks if I already have Top N Tilt. I grabbed one of those numerous Kubota brochures I have stashed around here and they also refer to it as Top N Tilt. That of course was the icing on the cake, because as we all know, if Kubota says it, its been said, and the standard is set. Of course Bird, I don't really care, it was one of those days I was scanning this site and there was the usual "my babies howling", " my glow plugs won't shine" and my favorite, "my wifes on my tractor and now I'm blue" (theres a song in there).. Take Care, Rat...

markcg2000 · Feb 1, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT, TOP\'N\'TILT

Nah, Harv, that's full automatic on an automatic weapon /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.

mark

Bird · Feb 1, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT, TOP\'N\'TILT

Rat, I've been married to the same woman nearly 36 years, and raised two daughters, so I'm accustomed to having someone to point out my flaws./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

dullpain · Feb 1, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT, TOP\'N\'TILT

You Blue Dudes may want to check my post in Kubota Owning titled Adding Hydraulic Valves (Tip & Tilt)

There may be something there for you?? If you have an extreme aversion to visiting Orange then it is also in "In the Shop" & "Tractor Customization" under same subject as above.

chuckp · Feb 2, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT, TOP\'N\'TILT

JohnT, My understanding is that the Draft Control would not be of any benefit to you on the box Scraper. Draft control was/is used to control depth when plowing. The plows have a tendency to pull themselves further and fruther into the ground. The Draft setting attempts to hold the depth of the plow to some nominal level.

Chuck /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

JATO_RaT · Feb 3, 2001

Re: TIP\'N\'TILT, TOP\'N\'TILT

Nothing could be further from the truth Chuck. Draft control is exactly what works so well with a box scraper. You see, draft control is a way for the hydraulic arm inside your tractor case that operates the 3 pt lift of being told to raise or lower itself depending on how the draft is set. My tractor uses a large set of springs which offer the play necessary for the top link to inform the draft device of the loading situation. In other words, as the load on the scraper increases from the tractor pulling harder, that play in the draft device pushs my draft arm forward telling the hydraulic lift for my 3 pt arms to lift whatever implement it is back there. When the load diminshes from less resistance (hopefully because the dirt in the bowscraper has now escaped under the slighltly raised scraper), the draft control will now lower the box back down. Your set up may differ in mechanics, but the end result is about the same. The draft control on my International works extremely well, so so on my Kubota and so so on the New Holland 2120. Hope that helps, Rat...