Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Tire chains on blacktop

[Rustywreck]

I am considering using my tractor to remove packed snow/ice from the paved driveway at work. My tractor has v-bar chains on all four tires, which I know can damage blacktop.
I had a great deal of difficulty putting the chains on the rear tires, and would rather not have to take them off and on.
My question is: Are tires with chains more likely to spin on blacktop than tires without chains?

 

[leonz]

Are planning on salting heavily it to break the bond of the ice and snow
before you do it? If so you need to do it in the daylight hours and you
may end up with more ice if you do not resalt it several times.

About spinning:
It all depends on whether the tires are loaded with liquid ballast
as you can move slowly provided you have the traction to do the work.
Yes, either type of chain will spin on blacktop if you start off to fast.
It may be better to have a plow truck come and do it if you are concerned
about chain marks. I just do not worry about them as the black top will bleach
out from the exposure to the sunlight anyway.

I would rather use sand in any case if there is thick ice.

 

[Deadman]

First off I'm going to guess that you have the R4 industrial tires on your tractor. If so, they are the culprit of no snow traction. I grooved my R4's and they do twice as good in the snow as they did before. I would HIGHLY suggest doing this instead of chains. The tires won't hurt the pavement, the chains will. The tires will do so much more that you will likely never reinstall the chains again unless u go in the woods, or are on solid ice.

Theres a huge post on tire grooving.

 

[oosik]

I used V-bar chains on my previous tractor - Ford 1700 4WD. As far as damaging asphalt/cement - unless you operate like a wild man - any marks left by the V-bar chains will be MUCH less than a person spinning out with studded tires. In all likelihood, your bucket will scuff up the asphalt - trying to scrape up the snow/ice - a lot more than the V-bar chains.

 

[dickfoster]

I used V-bar chains on my previous tractor - Ford 1700 4WD. As far as damaging asphalt/cement - unless you operate like a wild man - any marks left by the V-bar chains will be MUCH less than a person spinning out with studded tires. In all likelihood, your bucket will scuff up the asphalt - trying to scrape up the snow/ice - a lot more than the V-bar chains.

As far as the loader bucket tearing up the asphalt I put a snow edge on mine and it seems to work well as do my grooved R4's.

 

[Dave M7040]

I have a M7040 with an inverted blower and FEL.

I use TRYGG tire chains on pavement with minimal consequence.

Small white marks from individual chain studs which quickly turn black when the summer sun returns.

I am more concerned with ripping up large chucks of pavement with the FEL bucket than any damage by the TRYGG.

Dave M7040

 

[Rustywreck]

Thanks for all the replies; however I believe some are reading more into my question than need be.
My question is: Are tires with chains more likely to spin on blacktop than tires without chains?

I ask this because blacktop is harder when it is frozen than it is during warm weather. I have also experienced using Cleats (the spring like things which are placed over shoes to avoid slipping on ice). On ice Cleats provide excellent traction for shoes; however, they are very slippery on a tiled kitchen floor. I wonder if there is a parallel with tire chains: are tires with chains more likely to spin on a hard surface than a tire without chains?

I am very familiar with sand, salt and the use of my tractor - I simply have never used it on blacktop.

 

[PILOON]

I have run studded chains for some 8 years and come spring I very rarely see any signs of chain skid marks and if I do they fade away really fast.
Any skid marks seem to actually be more like shine like marks*, like the dirt was worn off.
Now my studded chains are every 3 link cross type and those simply refuse to slip but occasionally pushing a full load up hill that occurs.

As another poster said, frozen asphalt is very tough.

*in fact it might actually be metal that was worn off of the blade or skids.

 

[oosik]

If you consider bare ice as a "hard surface" - then chains on your tires will give better traction than the tires alone. Otherwise, why would anybody use chains. When I use to do 4WD ice racing - chains were such an advantage over bare tires - even studded tires - we had to create a special class for 4WD with chains.

I would consider hard, cold asphalt very similar to ice. Whether the chains will "scuff" the asphalt will have a lot to do with - how you drive the tractor, how heavy is the tractor, what style chains are you using, etc, etc.

There is one thing for sure - if you are going to be spinning your tires - then chains will scuff the asphalt, bare tires probably will not.

 

[Dave M7040]

Thanks for all the replies; however I believe some are reading more into my question than need be.
My question is: Are tires with chains more likely to spin on blacktop than tires without chains?

I ask this because blacktop is harder when it is frozen than it is during warm weather. I have also experienced using Cleats (the spring like things which are placed over shoes to avoid slipping on ice). On ice Cleats provide excellent traction for shoes; however, they are very slippery on a tiled kitchen floor. I wonder if there is a parallel with tire chains: are tires with chains more likely to spin on a hard surface than a tire without chains?

I am very familiar with sand, salt and the use of my tractor - I simply have never used it on blacktop.

Rustywreck

I guess in my area we rarely have the luxury of completely asphalt. Rather it is a combination of asphalt covered with ice, asphalt covered with hard packed snow. In the spring and fall the asphalt will be wet.

If the asphalt was clean and at worst wet then the rubber tire will do best. But if there is hard packed snow or ice then the tire alone is next to useless if any driving force is being asked of it.

My experience with the TRYGG studded chains is that they spread the pressure over many points and thus are less likely to do damage.

Previously I had a Nuffield 465 2WD. the first chains I bought were cheap ladder style and they offered little improvement on ice or packed snow as the cross chains were down between the lugs.

That tractor was much heavier than my M7040 Kubota and the added weight made a difference in traction except on pure ice.

Later I bought a surplus Volvo military truck which came with 20 pairs of very tough tire chains. I laid these chains over the ladder chains and finally I had real traction.

If I was faced with the challenge you seem to be I would have chains on the rear and none on the front but would be using 4WD much more. If the asphalt is dry or wet the front driving axle will keep you moving without the rear chained tires needing to spin. When it is slippery you can go back to 2WD and let the chained rear tires provide the traction.

Hope this answer is more response to your question

Dave M7040

 

[Deadman]

You need Soft tires in snow, not these cement like hardness these tractors come with.

 

[atsah]

As someone pointed out earlier, you need to soften to snow/ice before you try to scrape it, I have V-bar ice chains and I do scratch my hard top a little every year but very little.. If it's thick and solid you very well could damage the hard top way worse with down pressure than any scratch marks a chain will make..

 

[fishhead]

Rusty, in my experience it somewhat depends, when we paved our road i noticed several changes-i initially used 4-link v bar chains and when they were on the unpaved but iced and frozen drive the tips would dig in and penetrate the ice giving better traction and actually smoothing ou the ride because they weren't riding on the tips and lifting the tractor as much- my theory too is that because the tips and cross chain penetrate they adjacent chains stay somewhat engaged longer also enhancing traction.


Fast forward to the paved drive- same drive same tractor same chains and the ride became very lumpy and when really pushing hard i could end up with a slip then grip repetitive situation on the rears- this would leave some marks- usually this only happened when trying to scrape up the ice. When just driving the chains did not really seem to leave real marks- maybe just some spots but like said above they just go away.

I then changed to 2 link ladders and the ride improved they still can spin but mark minimally when they do. These don't grip as well as i would like and i think eventually the answer will be to pony up and get something like those try's or aquilines- i had trouble finding them in the right sizes when i needed chains though. I was thinking a sticky thread on chains and sources for them in the tire forum would be really helpful.

One option you might have that might work really well would be to take the chains you have and add cross chains to convert them to 2 link- they would weigh more and be harder to handle but should improve grip on both surfaces and lessens spinning, doing the work yourself it would be a lot cheaper than the exotic chains.

All of my advice is according to our local conditions which often have long icy periods and steep hills - here i do not believe the siping would accomplish anything as we have found studs to basically be a necessity on our AWD vehicles (with hakkapelittas even). If you live in a flat place and don't get ice then maybe siping would cut it.

It can be so slick here that my last accident was in my own drive on the flats - i just slid off at under 10 mph, could not even stand when i tried to walk home.

i also had a memorable ride on the tractor with the v-studs leaving grooves as i slid down the hill on a steep part since abandoned and rerouted.

I am considering using my tractor to remove packed snow/ice from the paved driveway at work. My tractor has v-bar chains on all four tires, which I know can damage blacktop.
I had a great deal of difficulty putting the chains on the rear tires, and would rather not have to take them off and on.
My question is: Are tires with chains more likely to spin on blacktop than tires without chains?

 

[dickfoster]

Dave M7040, what does the gal smuggling raisins have to do with tire chains and snow removal or is this just another one of those wierd Canadian things?

 

[oosik]

dickfoster - "gal smuggling raisins" ???

I guess you are due a direct answer by now - tires with chains will provide superior traction over bare tires. Tires with chains will be LESS likely to spin on blacktop that tires without chains. Leave your chains on and just clear the driveway. Normal clearing of ice/snow using a 4WD tractor with chains on all four will not cause objectionable damage.

Now - lets let the differing opinions come forth........

 

[atsah]

dickfoster - "gal smuggling raisins" ???

I guess you are due a direct answer by now - tires with chains will provide superior traction over bare tires. Tires with chains will be LESS likely to spin on blacktop that tires without chains. Leave your chains on and just clear the driveway. Normal clearing of ice/snow using a 4WD tractor with chains on all four will not cause objectionable damage.

Now - lets let the differing opinions come forth........

No differing here, I completely agree..

 

[Rustywreck]

dickfoster - "gal smuggling raisins" ???

I guess you are due a direct answer by now - tires with chains will provide superior traction over bare tires. Tires with chains will be LESS likely to spin on blacktop that tires without chains. Leave your chains on and just clear the driveway. Normal clearing of ice/snow using a 4WD tractor with chains on all four will not cause objectionable damage.

Now - lets let the differing opinions come forth........

Thanks for the answer.
I wasn't sure if the chains would grip better than bare tires on a paved driveway, or if they would spin easier.