Tire issue with local co-op

[Richard]

I don't know if I'm in the middle of a nightmare or just finished..... I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Sparing you the two week fiasco to get a NEW rim and new TUBELESS tire, I'll start near the end of the story.

Went to the co-op today to pick up a tire that's used (one of six) on my flexwing mower. I saw the guy mounting the tire in their mounting machine. I then saw him grab a box.... pull a tube out....

I got his attention and while shaking my head "NO", I asked...."is THAT (the tube) for THAT? (the tire)"

He nodded. I said no, it is supposed to be a tubeless tire. He graciously took me to the tire and pointed to the spot where it said "TUBE" on the tire, letting me know that meant it needed to be tubed.

I let him know that I specifically asked for a new rim (check) and wanted a tubeless tire put on it. The PRIOR version, was a rim I wanted rid of....BUT, it had a TUBED tire on it.

So I recognized he/they might simply replacing what I brought in, in the same format.

I told him to hang on....went out front to the PRIOR tire guy...and by happenstance, the very guy that I gave the initial order to. He basically walked back to the shop, told the (new) guy to mount the tire as I said, without the tube and he proceeded to pull the tube out, mounted a stem, tire, aired it up.

Meanwhile, I've got a voice in the back of my head saying that it says "TUBE" for a reason.... just like maybe a TUBELESS says that for a reason (all of which are unknown to me I'll admit)

He said the only real difference is some ribbing that's on the bead.... "if this leaks down on you, just bring it back and we'll put some bead sealant on it"

To which I said, well..... if that's the case, why not put the sealant on it NOW so that we maybe don't have that situation.

He pulled out the sealant, applied it to the TOP side of the rim where the bead resides. Filled it with air.

I then said, "I don't want to sound like an azz but...... shouldn't BOTH sides be sealed???"

"nah, they usually leak on the front side"

I'm standing there with my hands in my pockets, my knuckles are probably white as snow from being clenched.

I understand this has taken them two weeks to replace, I get that they accidently dropped it off at their OTHER shop 20 miles away (which is one reason it took so long for me to get it since they picked it up today)

This is the fourth new tire I've bought from them and the third new rim. To be fair to them, I had bought three prior tires, put them on the OLD rims and I think two of the three lost air so I replaced the old rims and had them move the tires (which were probably a year old)

I feel like I just got bent over but have been going to this place for 25 years and have always felt they were a bunch of 'good ole guys'.

So what's the story on putting a tire on a rim that says "TUBE" on the tire, and NOT putting a tube in it? Am I asking for issues?? (I also need to check my receipt to see if they charged me for the tube and didn't refund it after they yanked it out!)

 

[Vigo327]

First post here..

I'm fairly new to tubes (and tractors) in general but not to tires. Ive been an automotive technician all my adult life and now teach automotive at a community college, including mounting and balancing tires. I DO have about a half a dozen tubes installed on various things around here so it's not like I've never installed or used one.

Tires are assembled in layers and each layer has its own purposes. Not all types of tire 'ply' are intended to be as airtight as others. Usually on a car tire the very first (innermost) layer that touches the rim primarily serves as an airtight liner. Tubeless tires MAY be omitting such a layer completely (it is not structural as it has no thread/cord layer in it) or using a less airtight material.

In general i think most new tube style tires on clean rims would hold air for a good while regardless. I think the main thing it's going to do to you is force you to check pressure more often to avoid the early tire death of having a bunch of weight sitting on a pinched sidewall of a tire that's gradually gone flat when there's 'nothing wrong with it'.

For the record, i do mostly agree/believe with bead leaks mostly occurring on whichever side faces out. Whichever wheel is on the outside of a turn always ends up generating the most force and having the most deflection, so it makes sense that the outer beads of either side would be more likely to leak. I still understand the frustration of not having someone do exactly what you want when you're paying for it. The other side of that problem is that now that im 100% comfortable taking on the fight with tires and tire machines, I can't stand to let anyone else do mine at all. There will occasionally be times I wish i didn't have that problem, because some of them will still give me trouble here and there and make me wish i was doing something else.

 

[Smokeydog]

Nothing like a flat tire to waste a day.

Share you frustration with ag tire service locally. Had good experiences from Goforth tire in Kodak for ag tire repair and replacement.

After a rash of valve stems failing on tubeless tires now replaced with bolt in stems on trucks, trailers and farm equipment. I rather run tubeless if possible. Quality of where tubes are sourced like the valve stems always a concern.

Many tires I have put in slime or Gempler’s bulletproof tire sealant in to help prevent flats.

 

[Richard]

Update on my brand new tube tire without a tube in it (mounted on a brand new rim)

Cut a field yesterday.... of the six tires on the flexwing mower, I had one break the bead on both sides.

Happened to be the brand new tube tire, without a tube on the brand new rim.

I'm planning on taking it back to them and let them know I either want a tubeless tire mounted as originally requested, or refund this tire and they can keep it, that I'll go elsewhere.

I've bought four new rims from them with new tires on each one (all tubless) of those, I had issues with two of them losing air right out of the box. Those seem to now (finally) be fixed.

Had another one go flat and lose the bead (nothing to do with the co-op) but knowing how long it can take them, I bought a can of bead sealant and did it myself.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I don't understand why you are insisting on having a tubeless tire. My experience has been that any low speed tires that I have with tubes in them have a lot less problems with loosing air for any reason. Plus your wasting money on new rims when in your situation an old rim that is still servicable would be totally adequate for the job with a tube in it.

 

[Richard]

Simple (in my opinion)

Over my years, I've had more issues with tubes than not. If I get a nail/thorn in the tire, I can fix the tubeless tire in 10 minutes because I've got the stuff to fix that. Heck, I probably got three years out of near bald tires on the front of my riding mower..... with about 4-5 plugs in them before I finally replaced them last fall.

They're just easier for me to deal with.

The rims would probably work fine with a tube, yes. I do not feel comfortable that they'd work as well with tubeless (they were very old and getting very rusty)

 

[pmsmechanic]

Simple (in my opinion)

Over my years, I've had more issues with tubes than not. If I get a nail/thorn in the tire, I can fix the tubeless tire in 10 minutes because I've got the stuff to fix that. Heck, I probably got three years out of near bald tires on the front of my riding mower..... with about 4-5 plugs in them before I finally replaced them last fall.

They're just easier for me to deal with.

The rims would probably work fine with a tube, yes. I do not feel comfortable that they'd work as well with tubeless (they were very old and getting very rusty)

Okay I cab see your point. I very seldom get flat tires so not as much of an issue.

Next question... Have you ever used a tire sealant product like Slime? Available at WalMart etc.? I usually repair my tube type tires because that's what I prefer but if I don't feel like doing the work I just dump in some Slime. You install it through the valve core and refill with air, rotate the tire a few times and that's enough to stop the air leak.

 

[mwemaxxowner]

I chime in only to say I'm a firm believer in slime. I had an old ATV sit a few years with flat and dry rotted tires. Finally resurrected it but the tires wouldn't hold air long. I put slime in them and now have not had to worry about them in 2 years. Occasionally one of the cracks will ooze a little green. I put slime in all my off road tires now.

 

[ruffdog]

Do the wheels have the bead retaining humps near the bead seat area? If no humps, many times tubeless tires will lose air when pushed hard. It is common for implement wheels not to have that hump but cars and trucks do have the hump.

 

[notaz3]

My experience is with motorcycle tires. Tubeless tires have a stiffer bead to rim to help maintain contact with low/no air. You can put a tube in tubeless tire; but, not the other way around.