To ballast, or not to ballast

[poldies4]

This is kind of a continuation of an earlier thread. I as well as the other gentleman was sold a tractor with FEL and told loaded tires was sufficient ballast for my BX 1860. Thankfully i'm on TBN ALOT, and learned many good reasons to have ballast, other than keeping rear wheels on the ground. My dealer who staunchly defended the need for either one or the other, and really pushed the loaded tires, assured me that a ballast box or other 3pt weight was absolutley not needed. After a few discussions with him, and weeks of trying to find affordable ballast that was useful, I went to the deere dealer an bought a green one. I'm sure my dealer will be a little more digruntled when he drives by and see's the green box. He said "sure, i'll sell you one, but it's a waste of money, you don't need it". Plus he wanted 60 dollars more than the deere guy. At any rate, my question is are loaded tires ok to have with ballast box? Should I get rid of the beet juice, or keep it. My buddy bought a deere yesterday, his dealer said that loaded tires and ballast box was no good. It's amazing to me how many opinions they're are out there. Every dealer i've talked to has a differing opinion than the next. At any rate the moral of the story for me is that the ballast box has made a huge difference in how the tractor performs. I didn't realize how underweighted the rear end was until I had some weight behind the 3pt. When I loaded the box out of my truck into the loader I had to slowly back up a small slope to back into my barn. I figure the box itself weighs 125 lbs or so, maybe less. The next thing that happened really surprised me. With my loaded tires that the dealer assured me was plenty, and appropriate amount of rear ballast, low gear with only 2wd my back tires started to spin on the concrete. So with 125lbs, which is no where near the weight of a full bucket, a small slow incline, my traction was gone! I know that 4wd would have popped me right in, but I was testing some of the advice I was given. You guys on TBN give impartial real advice and those of us that are new to the tractoring, at least me, really appreciate it. So in my very green opinion, ballast might be one of the most crucial parts of FEL operation. I can't remember who said it, but some one on TBN stated that it's like driving on velcro, he was right!!!!!

 

[kevinj]

You have a loader that will lift 400# and only 100# in the tires. Therefore you need another 300# to keep the same balance you have without the loader.

The manual says to add ballast as needed for the job. If you are hauling feathers then the tire ballast is adequete. You have more weight out front with the loader than the tire ballast provides.

I had loaded tires and 275# on the 3PH and still was still light when moving full buckets of dirt.

 

[poldies4]

Thanks for the info Kevin. How many lbs should be there? My property is sand, not feathers so I figure i'll need it. I filled my box with rocks from my property, but without weighing each one do not have a way to quantify the actual weight. What is typically the fill material for the box? I used the rocks as I read on TBN that another guy has used this method and it worked fine. With a very full bucket I could feel the rear lighten a little, but what a remarkable difference between just the loaded tire to the actual box. Thanks for the info. Oh btw Kevin, are we nieghbors????

Sorry, missed the 400lb comment!!

 

[TripleR]

To put it bluntly, the dealers mentioned are full of baloney. They are essentially putting their customers at risk of serious injury with such advice.

As to your question, yes you can have both loaded tires and a ballast box as loaded tires or wheel weights are the rule in Ag tractors and many others. There is no difference in running weighted tires and a peice of 3-point mounted equipment or weighted tires and a ballast box.

However, if you want to lessen the weight on your lawn, you "can" unload your tires and a properly loaded ballast box will allow you the full benefit of your FEL. I have weights and don't get lawn damage, so my personal preference is for both, but it is certainly not necessary.

These small tractors are really susceptible to problems with a little weight difference here or there while the larger ones are not.

 

[NSBound]

Like you said, it depends on what you're doing. I have loaded rear tires and last week had some excavation to do out of a hillside to make room for a new storage building. The loader bucket was filled each time with real heavy, wet soil and mud, I'd guess 1000 lbs a load. So I had my loaded tires, plus my box blade on the rear, and I still lifted the rear tires a bit when going over some bumps, even very slowly with the bucket low over flat ground. And don't forget the ineveitable slight hole or hollow you'll run into with one of your front tires, which makes things very tippy with a heavy bucketful and not enough rear ballast. Plan for the unplanned! So yes, ballast on the rear, in addition to your loaded tires, is absolutely necessary when doning heavy FEL jobs.

 

[savageactor7]

To ballast, or not to ballast...

...it depends on what you're doing with the machine and soil conditions.

Our tractor is used to haul logs out of the woods and the FEL occasionally moves piles of stone or clay.

Years ago our soil was at the time poorly drained and mucky. When we got our tractor the tires were loaded, they left ruts in the lawn, and the tractor easily got stuck in the woods.

The loaded tires were drained and chains added now we can travel threw the wettest parts of the place.

Working in the snow requires some ballast...we'll use suitcase weights in the back and if needed throw some logs in the FEL.

In that avatar pic the FEL is loading from a compacted pile of dug clay...no ballast.

I suppose loaded tires is the most efficient ballast...if you need it. But it wasn't so in our case ...now I appreciate having the option to ballast or not.

 

[TripleR]

In most situations, weight is weight whether it is on the 3-point or in your tires and your 3-point. If you don't load your tires, you will need to add that amount to the 3-point.

There will be an increase in stability on hills with loaded tires, but for hauling stuff in your FEL on relatively flat ground, I fail to see how you "have" to have weighted tires AND a ballast box.

 

[SPYDERLK]

At any rate, my question is are loaded tires ok to have with ballast box? Should I get rid of the beet juice, or keep it. My buddy bought a deere yesterday, his dealer said that loaded tires and ballast box was no good. It's amazing to me how many opinions they're are out there. Every dealer i've talked to has a differing opinion than the next. At any rate the moral of the story for me is that the ballast box has made a huge difference in how the tractor performs. I didn't realize how underweighted the rear end was until I had some weight behind the 3pt.

It is good that you have an inquiring mind. Keep the beet juice. Tune the weight in the ballast box to suit. They have different effects because of where they are located in reference to the rear axle. Weight in or on the rear wheels has no effect on the weight on the fronts because it is symmetrical about the axle - the pivot axis of the tractor. When you accelerate there is a small effect of the wheel ballast lightening the front. Going for liquid ballast presents one danger if the tires have too high a percentage of liquid because that gives them too high a compression ratio and imprudent use over bumps could jolt into the chassis with very little of the normal cushioning. 80% fill is viewed as safe and I routinely use more on my larger tractors with no problem. The higher compression ratio lessens the amt of squat when you add a 3pt implement. Tire pressure rises quickly and the tire doesnt go dangerously flat even with big changes in supported load.

That added implement is either a real or pseudo ballast box. It is a true counterweight since it is suspended behind the axle. Increasing weight lightens the front. Many times you can find a useful implement that is a natural for the tractor in your type of usage. However anything of constant weight will always be varying around the weight you actually need in dynamic usage. Essentially you run an extreme range in heavy loader use -- you want enuf front force on the ground empty bucket and no flat fronts with a full bucket. And if youre back dragging with downforce you may not want a counterweight at all. The ballast box, tho not as useful as a tool, will usually give you better options to adjust its weight than an implement.
larry

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

Since you have a "green ballast box" and I'm not sure what size Kub you have here is a copy from the JD manual for smaller tractors regarding ballast. Hope this helps.

Required Minimum Tractor Ballast

CAUTION: To help prevent the possibility of personal injury or death caused by tractor/loader roll over, DO NOT operate tractor/loader unless it is equipped with proper ballast.
The amount of ballast listed in the chart is the minimum required for normal loader operation. For some operations, additional ballast may be required to maximize stability.
IMPORTANT: When adding ballast, do not exceed maximum tire carrying capacity shown on sidewall.
REQUIRED MINIMUM BALLAST FOR 2210 AND 2305 TRACTORS
Option
Ballast1
1
Fluid-filled rear tires and one wheel weight per wheel and 350 kg (772 lb) of 3-Point Hitch Ballast2
REQUIRED MINIMUM BALLAST FOR 2320, 2520, 2720, 4100, 4110 AND 4115 TRACTORS
1
Fluid-filled rear tires and 350 kg (772 lb) of 3-Point Hitch Ballast2
2
Three rear wheel weights per wheel and 350 kg (772 lb) of 3-Point Hitch Ballast2
If loader is equipped with pallet fork attachment, 85 kg (187 lb) of additional ballast is required.

1 Ballast given is required with minimum rear tread setting.
2 See ADDING BALLAST TO 3-POINT HITCH in this section.

 

[Martin hobbs]

This dealer apparently has never flipped or almost flipped a tractor. before i had ballast in the rear wheels of my kubota L 28 i almost turned over. i was going down hill with a full load of gravel and started to turn. the left rear wheel came off the ground about a foot. i quickly rammed the bucket into a tree, which saved me from flipping over. I unloaded the bucket by hand and the tractor immediately righted it self. very scary. I immediately added water to the rear wheels. that dealer is putting his customers in extreme danger by his denial of the importance of rear ballast.