to chinese or not to chinese?

Ranch_Hand_Supp · Jun 14, 2005

Interesting bruce1966us....... A Block Heater fixes all Chinese Tractor cold start problems. If that is true....with a little time and couple of dollars... seems like that problem would go away quick and easy. Most all the reading I have done on the net about Cold Starting problems on these tractors has been from operator error to something with the tractor like, cranking speed, Glow plugs system [if it had them], bad fuel, fuel delivery etc.

I dont guess I have read everything and sure dont know everything !!!.... But I have yet to hear of a cold operation problem with the Hydraulics after the Chinese Oils have been removed properly.

Maybe all the Chinese Tractor Owners and Supporting Dealers that are involved with these Internet Forums.....from giving advise and corrections from there own experiences are not telling the truth ?.

Makes you think though when you read a reply stating... Thanks !!! its FIXED, Works Great !! ???

I dont know of anything or anybody that gets up and goes on those COLD Days without a little TLC of some kind. From something as little as having a extended crank time before it starts. But hey...what do I know??

Ronald

JohnS · Jun 14, 2005

Lets cover size first:

As Thingy mentioned, once you have added a rfm to a 200 series Jinma, this is a relatively large package. If your lawn is less than an acre, and you have lots of trees, flowers and other items to go around, the trim mowing time will add up. If you have a 2-3 acre yard, with large open areas, the 200 series/rfm should work. FYI, I have one+ acre of yard, some trees and flower beds. I lawn mow with a 46" MTD, and not thinking of using my Jinma. MTD takes me 1 hour. Absolutly need turf tires for yard work, IMHO. Unless you have an extremely large yard (>3 acres), going to 30, 40, or 50 hp tractors will just make this worse. Some of the larger tractors, do not have turf tire option. Also, consider the weight of these larger tractors.

For snow blowing, a 200 series can hadle a 5' 3pt blower. If you have allot of driveway, you can go larger tractor. Buffalo area, I assume it is just a quantity thing. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif You will need chains for the turf tires, and need 4wd.

OK, assuming your yard is 1-2 acres, that will put you in a 2X4 series Jinma or other chinese equivelent. There are other chinese tractors in this size range, but some like the DF, use the same Y380/Y385 engine. Finding one of the others in your area, maybe difficult. Not even a given, for Jinma. From a parts availability and i-net support knowledge, I'd recommend a Jinma 254/284 with turfs. A 224 (Y380) might work, if you want to save a few $. Given mowing and snow blowing, where you have allot of forward-reverse shifting, go for a shuttle shift. If planning to rototill, that would put you in non-shuttle shift, but with creeper gears.

I don't use mine in the winter, but have seen many a post on the cold weather starting issues. Most of these can be overcome, and other diesels are not immune to the cold, either. But you need to consider it, with your purchase. If you have heated or non-heated w/ electrical power, storage, cold starting should not be an issue. If just parked out in the elements, that might be more of a challenge/PITA. I have an 8hp MTD walk behind blower. I wouldn't recommend it for many deep snow falls. It handles my needs, for my size driveway/normal snowfall. Using my Jinma, would probably not save me any time. If and when I trash the MTD, I would reconsider that.

bruce1966us · Jun 14, 2005

( ( and is reasonable evidence that you sold Jinmas without replacing the Chinese fluids.

)

Boy Greg you sure make a lot of unwarrantied assumptions. The only way I have been able to get the hydraulics consistient on each tractor is to use 10W fluid. I'm not talking about 1 or 2 tractors, but container loads. And the hydraulics are still not as good as a Yanmar. Anyone who has been here any length of time knows the inherit pump problems. Are the hydraulics good? Yes. Are they the best? NO.
I still think the Jinmas are a good deal for the $$.
Does a Jinma start as good in cold weather as a Yanmar?Absolutely NOT. Why? For one most Yanmars have a precombustion chamber while the Jinma, Iseki, Hinomoto, etc. do not.
I didn' t come here to bash the Jinma as I use one myself. And I could take my pick and drive one of every brand if I saw fit. I am only pointing out some things that new tractor buyers might want to take into consideration.

jaybirdt · Jun 14, 2005

Thanks for all the replys guys, the iseki I use is kept in a barn but I installed a 600 watt block heater from my local ford dealer designed for a ford 3000. I plug it in for half an hour and it starts right up regardless of temp.I wonder if anyone has done the same wit a jinma or Kama as it was only 40 bucks. I use a 51 inch blower and it takes a while as drive is about 800 ft. Iwas leaning more twords 35hp to run a 6ft to cut down on time also have about 4 acres to mow. Im wondering about possibly a 2wd Kama 45 hp more hp for larger blower. Again thanks also didnt mean to start a battle about whos jinma will start in coldest temp

thingy · Jun 14, 2005

Well,,,well,,,well,,,,,I don't use mine much in real cold temps..,,,but keep the blade on back and start it up about every 3-4 weeks during winter just in case we get another one of those big blizzards,,,[we have gotten over 3 ft of snow in about one day,twice during those last two blizzards],in past 13 years,,and another one is due,,,,thats in southern w.va.,,,now in buffalo,,,well...lotta snow,,and it can get real cold,,,worked up around there in winter,,,,,,but mine has never,once,failed to start,,and I've been starting it up for three winters now,,,course put a new battery on it the first summer,,,and I've started it several times when temp was around 20 degrees but not many and I keep mine out side under a tarp with no heater deal,[tried one of those little magnetic heater deals,,you would do about as much good pissing on it as one of those I think},,,always try and wait till weather breaks,,,,but in buffalo you can't operate that way,,if you want you use it to move snow,,,,,,so,,,inline hose type heater or something would almost be a requirement up there,,for any type tractor I would think,,not just jinmas,,,it gets down to 20 -30 below up there,,at least it did when I was there.
But,,still,,if second requirement is to mow a normal large yard,,,no,,,don't think they fit the bill,,,,you need something smaller,,,with 4wd,,,hydro type transmission,,,not with ag tires,,[you can add weight and chaines],and it would have to be big enough to not get stuck and use a snow blower with,,,,,,man hate to say it,,,,,but,,,,those little big three or four brands come to mind,,,,,,,,,,course,,,for about the same price as a good used one of them,,,,you can get a new chinese tractor,,,that is a real tractor,,,not a souped up lawnmower,,,and a new sears garden lawn tractor to mow your yard with,,,thats the combination I've been using,,,,,,,,thingy

greg_g · Jun 14, 2005

( I wonder if anyone has done the same wit a jinma or Kama as it was only 40 bucks. )

That's what I meant above about adding "a pair of 250W Wolverines to the oil pan for starts below 15 degrees".

There is no place big enough or flat enough on the KM454 oil pan for a 500W or larger. The oil pan makes a U-shape around the front driveshaft housing, leaving only two long narrow flat areas to stick a heater. Wolverine makes a 250W that's only 1"x6", so I bought a pair - and stuck one on either side of the driveshaft tunnel

//greg//

cmperry · Jun 14, 2005

I live in eastern Maine..have an inline heater (coolant)....give it 20 minutes and she starts in all temps...never failed..224 Jinma

kidney · Jun 14, 2005

My Kama TS354C with a lower radiator hose heater starts almost instantly at 10 degrees. I have a timer on the cord and plug the tractor in. It heats one half hour every day if below 32 degrees. At 7 am I go out and plow snow if it needs to be done. It is all fun,no work. My tractor is in a unheated garage. Above 32 the heater does not work and I have no problems. With some planning you can make cold weather starting easier.

bruce1966us · Jun 14, 2005

I never thought about it but I like the timer idea!

SPIKER · Jun 14, 2005

First let me say, Each tractor OWNER is different and tries to start them differently... I have a Jinma 284, it starts every winter for every snow fall, even the blizzards with -20 below wind chill. granted it takes a bit more pacience but mine starts so far every time... (need a new battery I think now as I left key on and am a bit affraid that next time I'm stuck in 20" of snow it wont start for me /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif) anyhow this is what I DO to get mine started in cold temps.

#1 I don't run straight diesel fuel I use ~10~15% Kerosene in the fuel/mix for cold temp running. I use ON-ROAD GRADE FUEL TOO.
#2 Make sure you have a anti-gel treatment (usually it is already in COld Weather fuel. if filling at or near eng of warm season the tanks I add a bit just to be sure.
#3 use an aftermarket heat source of some type, I don't have any kind of ACTUAL BLOCK or ANTI=FREEZE hearters, I use a 500 watt HALOGEN SHOP LIGHT. I place the light on the front tire and shine it on the Injector Pump for about 20 min prior to starting when temp is under 30 degrees or so.
#4 Learn how to use the glow plugs! right way is ON for 10~25 sec then crank engine. best way is to watch the AMP GAUGE/METER it will start off at drawing ~30 amps then drop back to ~25 when they are warmed up. mine usually in 20 or so temp takes 20 sec or so. never run em longer than 30 sec or below 25 amps draw.
#5 learn how to use the decompression lever! some times I use mine usually I don't as it starts 1st/2nd try with above advice. If it cranks SLOW on 1st try or when I haven't started it for over a month then I will use the decompression lever to get it up and spinning & moving some oil.. Only a couple revs as the air moving will cool off the glow plugs if actually attempting a start using decompression release..
#6 keep light weight oil for winter use in everything or let it warm up a while prior to attempting to move it. I use B303 type oil in my hydraulics & trans. it does take a min to get pressure into the system for the heavier b303 oil but it also works better in heat so I compromised mine to the heat as I only run it in wonter to plow snow that was abotu 10 times this year /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif that heavy ICE STORM really aws bad at my place. 20"+ of snow with a 2" thick ice crust, it was walkable on top with out my size 8.5" feet and 170 lbs breaking through with out jumping on it!! I only have a BOX BLADE to plow with poor device for that but I use it anyhow. I plowed that ice/snow at night watched it ripple across the top of the yard/drive for 40 or so feet in the full moon light! was pretty cool cept I was freezing my but off /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.

anyhow the halogen light trick is my own thought as I also have a heat lamp at home which is colder at 2' away than the halogen light /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif a few min warming the injector pump area will warm the fuel & workings to get it going much faster..

anyhow have to be at work at 5 am tomarrow again /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

MarkM