To idle or shut-off: Which is best?

[rdsaustintx]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If so, do you disagree )</font>

I ain't disagreeing, just refusing to worry about it.

It's a tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Russell in Texas

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

rd -

To each his own I suppose. Just not clear on your logic. You agree that it's bad for your engine, but that's OK because its just a tractor. Does that mean that you would follow a different procedure with diesel engines in equipment other than tractors, because they're not tractors? And if so, what do you have against tractors? Did one run over your foot at an early age?

My best guess is that maybe you're just trying to get my goat, and I weighed the merits of simply ignoring your post, but unfortunately for all I found myself incapable of doing so.

And for the record, I am not worried one single bit, now that I know that I'm treating my engine the best way I possibly can, and can probably enjoy many more hours of trouble-free operation than those who choose to ignore the aforementioned laws of physics and chemistry.

Blissfully yours, John D.

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Jeff -

Hallelujah, another convert! Oh, the Tractor Gods are surely smiling tonight. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Welcome to the fold, the righteous path you have chosen will surely bring blessings to you and your engine. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It is truly amazing what you can learn here. With all of the VERY knowledgeable people here, and SO many posts, it's pretty easy to separate the wheat from the chaff and come up with good, solid, useable, and CORRECT information.

I do love the pursuit of truth - it saves me money. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gawd, look at the time - bedtime + 2 hours - this place is habit-forming, no doubt about it.

Good to meet you - take care, John

 

[rdsaustintx]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I am not worried one single bit)</font>

Feels pretty good, huh? Life in general, and Botas in particular, are just too tough to sweat little stuff.

Happy trails,

Russell in Tejas

 

[Dargo]

I'm not really sure that it makes any big difference, but I almost always shut the darn things off so I don't have to hear the noise or smell the exhaust. I've been around large, medium, and small diesel engines most of my life. The novelty of hearing a diesel idle has worn off for me long ago. Besides that, for some reason the wind always seems to blow the exhaust right at me no matter where I am. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

The reason I say that I'm not sure it matters is because a lot of the equipment I know about has tens of thousands of hours on them. Several family members have worked in the coal mines and mine equipment business. My dad has worked as a master mechanic at mines. The equipment there is likely abused more than most other equipment anywhere. As long as they keep the oil levels up, oil changed, air and fuel filters serviced, there is rarely any heavy engine issues. Remember, most people run this equipment like they stole it. Some people have left equipment running over an idle 3rd shift so there is no wasted time warming up on first shift. Those tractors and other pieces of equipment have taken that 8 hours of idling daily for years and years without any adverse heavy engine problems.

 

[cheesehead]

Thank you for your reply and everyone else's. This is my first diesel engine and I've watched truckers over the years just let their rigs idle through meals and the evenings in their sleeper cabs. What has been written makes a lot of sense and I'll probably work to a "five minute rule". There has been a lot of discussion on the bad sdie of idling in this thread, I thought there might have been more written on the bad sides of "cycling" a tractor through shutdowns and start-ups many times a day. My novice brain conjures up issues of temperature cycling, electrical system loading (just how long does it take to recharge the current required to start the engine?) and how pressure cycling of engine seals affects their life. My reading to date of this thread causes me to beleive that some of these things are a factor otherwise people would have told me to shut it down rather than find the optimum idle speed and maximum duration. This all started with loading bucket after bucket of firewood the other day. I couldn't have dreamed about starting the tractor 14 times over a 3 hour period, but at the same time TBN has enabled me to optimize the process by bumping the idle and having think about shutting it down when the neighbor interupts the loading process to talk about the weather. I guess owning a tractor can be a religious experience. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Dargo -

It's nice to cross paths with you, I've enjoyed and benefitted from your many, many excellent posts.

Your (again excellent) posts has got me to thinking (ouch).

I've poked around online and read about marine engines designed to go 20,000 hours between overhauls. Similar in bomb-proof construction to the behemoths you describe in your post. I've thought about what people have said about the seemingly infinite lifespan of their tractor engines, and the resultant lack of concern about how to run them.

I'm thinking of starting a thread asking hey, just how long DO your compact utility tractor engines go before they need to be rebuilt? How long before they smoke too much, lose too much compression, develop a rod/crank/piston knock and have to be torn down?

And what types of operating practices might make them last even longer before facing the inevitable wrench? Can any correlation be shown between operating practices and longevity?

It just seems that all of the issues mentioned in this thread - wet stacking, oil sludging, vapor condensing, carbon buildup, low oil pressure - can't just be all about nothing? Or can it?

The diesel engines in my chippers seem to last about 6,000 hours if their lucky. Perkins and Cummins 4-cylinders mainly. What ABOUT CUT engines? My guess is more like 3,000, and at that rate mine will be shot in 8 1/2 years. Will it go 10-12 years if I do what this thread suggests?

Does any of this stuff really matter? My gut says yes, but my brain craves hard data.

 

[rdsaustintx]

8-1/2 years.

And how long do you expect the BX23 HST will last? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Russell in Texas

 

[RayH]

Theres been some great discussion here and some compelling reasons to not let my BX idle for long periods. I understand the theory of wet stacking at low RPMs and low load. The problem is that Im not convinced that over the long run, its really going to make a difference in how long a CUT diesel will last. I work my backhoe for hours straight sometimes. Granted, at high RPMS, but relatively low load. People mow with their CUTs, for hours straight. People run generators all day long, log splitters all day, etc. The tractor engine is designed specifically for these uses. Following this logic, the best thing for your engine is to let it sit and run at 1/2 or 3/4 RPMs for the five minutes that it takes you to fill the bucket. While I dont recall every word of the previous posts, I didnt remember anyone suggesting running their tractor at near full throttle to save the engine yet this is what the engine is designed to do.
I let mine run when Im repeatedly on and off the tractor and I let it run at about 1/4 throttle, sometimes just above idle, but never at idle. I would let it run higher but the noise gets to me. Im not so much worried about wet stacking, I just like to keep the oil pressure up.

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

And how long do you expect the BX23 HST will last?

rd -

You pose the question as if you have a conclusive answer based on empirical evidence. If so, I would love to hear your answer to that question.

I have wondered the same thing, and the topic of HST longevity came up in another thread. In it, I was remarking on the fact that I have never heard of any known failure of a Kubota transmission, and went on to speculate that surely they must give out at some point due to "old, old age". I would welcome any input that you or others have on the subject, although that probably belongs in a different thread that I just might start.

It would seem to me that a hydrostatic transmission might very well last much longer than a CUT diesel engine. It is continually bathed in hydraulic oil which is relatively cool, compared to the high temperatures that a diesel engine is subjected to. It is not subjected to the same degree of mechanical stresses imposed by pistons, crank, and millions of explosions. It isn't affected by carbon build-up or many of the other chemical processes that occur in a diesel engine. It has far fewer moving parts, doesn't go through as wide a range of temperatures in its heating and cooling cycle, and might just be less expensive than a diesel engine to repair, thus making it more likely that one might go to that expense in order to keep his tractor operational, as long as the ENGINE ISN'T SHOT TOO.

Again, any well-considered thoughts you might have on the subject would be welcome - or where you just trying to yank my chain?