? to LEO's on ambulance ROW

[Kernopelli]

If I understand your scenario; you are following an ambulance in a chase vehicle(DOC vehicle). Unless you are operating a properly equipped emergency vehicle(lights and siren), you are not operating legally and you are taking a big risk. May never get in trouble by a LEO, but if something ever happened, you'd be up the creek without a paddle. (Speaking about Kansas, not Illinois)

That's correct. Some institutions use vehicles that are equipped with lights/siren although I have rarely seen them used. At my institution none of the vehicles do but all are clearly marked as D.O.C. vehicles. We have always been shown a great deal of "professional courtesy" by all of our local L.E. agencies, even when off duty (flash I.D. , "OK, slow down and go about your way") however, I think you are absolutely correct. We have all been instructed (direct order from superior rank or administrative/ institutional directive) to stay within a close distance to the ambulance, do not allow any civilian vehicles between ambulance/chase vehicle, do not allow any civilian near a stopped ambulance, etc. However, popular opinion is that if we took aggressive measures to do so (extreme defensive operation of the vehicle, use of mace, drawn or discharged weapon) in any case other than a verified escape attempt and we were called on the carpet, we would be hung out to dry.

Even with my limited experience, I have definitely seen what the others have mentioned about some civilian's total disregard to yield right of way. Several times I have had to "play chicken" with a vehicle trying to directly tail the ambulance, I have seen drivers that all but refuse to leave the left lane and block the ambulace by driving beside another vehicle (happened just the other night for a 3-4 mile stretch) or they will chase the ambulance/ chase vehicle. I too have to believe there are a lot of people out there that are not just ignorant but intentionally try to display "their power" in these situations. In some instances you really can't arrive at any other logical conclusion for their actions.

 

[SnowRidge]

................. I too have to believe there are a lot of people out there that are not just ignorant but intentionally try to display "their power" in these situations. In some instances you really can't arrive at any other logical conclusion for their actions.

My wife has come up with an interesting theory on why some people do that sort of thing (the traffic "power play"). She thinks these folks have essentially lost all control over their own lives. Their employers, lenders, preachers, spouses, the government, and others direct almost all aspects of their lives. In frustration, they attempt to regain some vestige of control by asserting themselves over anonymous souls on the highway.

For a few fleeting moments, they feel like they are in charge of someone else, and they can exact their brief revenge on the world at large, one vehicle at a time.

 

[Soundguy]

I guess if you think about it.. they, are, in effect, able to change something outside their own body.. by driving in the 'wrong' area.. it makes other people move!

soundguy

 

[DavidVT]

Regarding following the ambulance with any vehicle, marked or unmarked. IMHO this is not about your right to follow or your right to be escorting the ambulance.

You take an enormous personal risk upon yourself when following that lit up ambulance, especially when it is exceeding the speed limit and perhaps busting traffic lights.

Often drivers see the ambulance while waiting at an intersection. They will start moving as soon as it passes....

.....directly into or in front of a tailing vehicle.

If you supervisor is telling you to follow closely, I hope they can support your family when you are gone.....

Think about it, you are taking a big risk regardless of the law. Perhaps more needs to be done to address both control of the inmate and the safety of the officers. Do you, alone? in that car really offer that much control over the inmate if something were to go wrong, or are you just there as a CYA for the state?

Regarding 'CYA': When serving in the CG in Boston almost 30 years ago, we used to tie up next to liquid gas tankers above the tobin bridge. We always joked on the crew that we were their so someone could say the CG were among the first to die.... There was nothing we were going to do on a 5 below zero night if someone was determined enough to try to blow up one of those ships. We were just trying to stay warm on that 41' aluminum boat that did not heat when it was idling.... (don't worry, I doubt they do that duty the same way now. I bet it is with a good sized and warm vessel if not several of them.)

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I have folks on my ambulance and fire squads who seem to think the lights and siren are some kind of Star Trek style 'SHIELDS UP'. No light nor siren is going to protect your body from the assault it must endure if someone makes a mistake and tests how much kinetic energy your stored up in your speeding body.... 'due regard' speaks to your safety and those around you.

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As a foot note, I've done some really stupid things driving a commerical ambulance in Boston in the early 80's. If it could be done, I probably did it or tried. Not proud of it but now living in rural Vermont I do use those life experiences to try and help others understand the mixture of speed, youth and that emergency response problem called adrenaline.

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Ok, sorry for the ramble.. stuck in Galveston on a Fema contract and off duty at the moment...........

 

[Kernopelli]

Regarding following the ambulance with any vehicle, marked or unmarked. IMHO this is not about your right to follow or your right to be escorting the ambulance.

You take an enormous personal risk upon yourself when following that lit up ambulance, especially when it is exceeding the speed limit and perhaps busting traffic lights.

Often drivers see the ambulance while waiting at an intersection. They will start moving as soon as it passes....

.....directly into or in front of a tailing vehicle.

If you supervisor is telling you to follow closely, I hope they can support your family when you are gone.....

Think about it, you are taking a big risk regardless of the law. Perhaps more needs to be done to address both control of the inmate and the safety of the officers. Do you, alone? in that car really offer that much control over the inmate if something were to go wrong, or are you just there as a CYA for the state?

You're right, it is a risk but in the big picture it might actually be a lesser evil. I am not trying to sound too gung-ho here because the majority of C/O's (myself included) are just regular guys making a living but this is just one of the risks we face daily. These ARE convicted felons- some are petty criminals and some are straight up killers and it's actually pretty hard sometimes to guess who is going to be more aggressive.
Give me the choice of transporting a sick inmate or supervising 50-200 inmates by myself in a housing unit that's been on lock down for a week in the middle of the summer and I'm going to knock you out of the way getting to a chase vehicle. As far as how much control do we really have in an ambulance? Not much or maybe a great deal, that's just part of the job we agreed to. No inmate goes out the door without waist chain and hand cuffs secured to it and leg irons on. Add to this, the fact is if he is sick enough to get transported out, he is often times literally on his death bed and at best pretty darn sick, i.e. they aren't feeling too spunky . Believe me, the state is all about CYA and we are too. If an inmate is in surgery, he is restrained until under anesthesia and we are right there beside them (yes literally) throughout the operation. We are sometimes even present during autopsy. We once had to hold up a life flight for 2 hours because the helicopter could not safely hold the additional weight of an extra person and even though the inmate was in a drug induced coma and restrained, the Director for DOC had to personally hand down the OK for the inmate to be unescorted during the flight. Now that's CYA to the extreme.