? to LEO's on ambulance ROW

[Bird]

Of course, I've been retired for a long time, but I think most state statutes are similar (not exactly the same, though). Texas state is as follows:

ｧ 545.156. VEHICLE APPROACHED BY AUTHORIZED EMERGENCY[0]
VEHICLE[0]. (a) On the immediate approach of an authorized emergency[0]
vehicle[0] using audible and visual signals that meet the requirements
of Sections 547.305 and 547.702, or of a police vehicle lawfully
using only an audible signal, an operator, unless otherwise
directed by a police officer, shall:
(1) yield the right-of-way;
(2) immediately drive to a position parallel to and as
close as possible to the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway
clear of any intersection; and
(3) stop and remain standing until the authorized
emergency[0] vehicle[0] has passed.
(b) This section does not exempt the operator of an
authorized emergency[0] vehicle[0] from the duty to drive with due regard
for the safety of all persons using the highway.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, ｧ 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.


ｧ 545.157. PASSING AUTHORIZED EMERGENCY[0] VEHICLE[0].
(a) On approaching a stationary authorized emergency[0] vehicle[0]
using visual signals that meet the requirements of Sections 547.305
and 547.702, an operator, unless otherwise directed by a police
officer, shall:
(1) vacate the lane closest to the emergency[0] vehicle[0]
when driving on a highway with two or more lanes traveling in the
direction of the emergency[0] vehicle[0]; or
(2) slow to a speed not to exceed:
(A) 20 miles per hour less than the posted speed
limit when the posted speed limit is 25 miles per hour or more; or
(B) five miles per hour when the posted speed
limit is less than 25 miles per hour.
(b) A violation of this section is:
(1) a misdemeanor punishable under Section 542.401;
(2) a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of $500 if the
violation results in property damage; or
(3) a Class B misdemeanor if the violation results in
bodily injury.
(c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section
also constitutes an offense under another section of this code or
the Penal Code, the actor may be prosecuted under either section or
under both sections.

Added by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 327, ｧ 2, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.

When I started on the Police Department, the City of Dallas had an ordinance restricting the code 3 speed of ambulances and fire trucks to 10 mph over the posted speed limit. But I doubt that there was ever a citation issued unless an ambulance driver was doing something really crazy. All ambulance service in Dallas back then was provided by funeral homes. The police officers did any first aid that was done; the ambulance drivers just loaded and transported patients.

Now, in answer to Soundguy's question, to the best of my knowledge, there is no legal provision for a driver to do anything that would otherwise be illegal to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle, unless instructed to do so by a police officer. So, if you run a red light, make an illegal turn, move into an illegal lane, etc., and you have an accident, you can expect to be liable and you and/or your insurance will pay. However, it's hard for me to imagine a police officer writing a citation for someone who was trying to get out of the way of the emergency vehicle if no accident was involved. In fact, I have run red lights, after stopping, in my personal vehicle to get out of the way of emergency vehicles in the past myself. But I did it knowing I had to do it safely. And when driving a police vehicle, I've had other people run red lights to get out of my way.

 

[Soundguy]

That's my thinking.. if it's done safe.. you should be safe.. but it's alarming there isn't any ink on paper specifically addressing this... mkaes ya wonder.. we have so many other useless laws on paper.. why not some clarifications on a USEFULL law.. etc.

soundguy

 

[Bird]

That's my thinking.. if it's done safe.. you should be safe.. but it's alarming there isn't any ink on paper specifically addressing this... mkaes ya wonder.. we have so many other useless laws on paper.. why not some clarifications on a USEFULL law.. etc.

soundguy

Just two problems that I see:
1) I agree that we have too many useless laws, but since I've never known of a case of a lack of law in this matter causing anyone any problem, wouldn't it just be another useless law?
2) I sure don't know how you'd word such a law. If you say it's OK for someone to run a red light to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle, and then someone does it and gets hit by another driver that was driving legally and didn't know about the emergency vehicle being there, who will be at fault? Or will it be a "no fault" situation? It can be very difficult to word a law that covers all possibilities.

I guess you know where you get "clarification" on laws, don't you? By reading appeals court decisions. They can sometimes be some very interesting reading, if you have the time to spend in a law library.

 

[rback33]

Rack33,

It was my full intention to quote KSA 8-1530 which addresses what a motorist is supposed to do when encountering an emergency vehicle; I do believe that is what Soundguy was looking for. I didn't quote a statute when responding to your post about being limited to 10mph over; if I was to have quoted a statute, you are correct in the fact that KSA 8-1506 governs the operation of emergency vehicles and would be the correct one.

Ok. I see where we got crossways. In your reply you initially addressed me, but were answering Soundguy's post. I took your post to be an attempt to discredit my 10 MPH claim. (which I later did anyway) No harm done. Both statutes are posted so it's very clear (ha, ha) what the laws are in Kansas. In actuality we know how they read, but how they are interpreted is subject to question.

 

[Kendrick]

Bird Per #2 you DONT! every idiot with a pocketbook would pull such bs as to make said law useless.

as it works you "sweep any misdoing under the rug" when it does not cause undue trouble.


soundguy it sucks but there is no provision. if an idiout is yelling at his kids and ignoring every thing else. he then drives in to the person who moved out of the way by going in to the wrong lane you will get socked. if you are "parked" in that lane while he hits you so that he cant clame you just came out of no where. inattention to driving and a fiew other charges will go aginst him. if its a fault state you will have a good chance of getting stuck wth the bill any ways though you may be able to get some back through civial aginst the other driver. its all about how it happens.

afaik it is not an optional thing to give the officer the right of way it is a requirement to do so in such a manner as to be safe for both the EMV and your self. that is also why you are allowed and technically should get off of a major street/highway and in to a parkinglot or other "safe" location when getting pulled over. if you just got busted speeding or running a red light etc you shouldent be making the officer stand in a busy 40mph 4 lane street that has no sholder. from what i remember you are supposed to turn your flashers on to notify the officer you understand and will comply when safe. that doesnt mean 40 miles later either. there are plenty of places where if you pulled over just past the crest of the hill you will put both your self and the officer in danger.

 

[Soundguy]

I guess you know where you get "clarification" on laws, don't you? By reading appeals court decisions. They can sometimes be some very interesting reading, if you have the time to spend in a law library.

That.. and I guess 'discretion' on the part of LEO's.. and or DA's.. etc..

soundguy

 

[Bird]

That.. and I guess 'discretion' on the part of LEO's.. and or DA's.. etc..

soundguy

Yes, that, too. And then sometimes what some people think is discretion on the part of the officer is actually departmental policy that he/she is required to follow.

 

[RobertN]

It sure isn't a law that LEOs can only drive 10 over, but I'm sure some departments have tied the hands of their officers by having BS policies like that.

May not be a big deal for LEO's driving cars. Fire engines, Water Tenders etc at 10+ over can be hard to stop or maneuver given size and weight. At least, our are.

 

[TheHammer]

Soundguy,

I'm not a LEO, nor do I play one on TV, but I'm stuck at work with nothing going on on a Saturday afternoon when it is 70 and sunny outside, so....

I would hope if there happened to be an officer at that intersection at the time the ambulance was coming, nobody would have gotten a ticket for doing the "right" thing, meaning safely moving out of the way even though a couple people had to go through the light to do it. Even if an overzealous officer did, a judge would likely throw it out.

As for a law that makes it legal to do the above, let's say one of the guys who turned on red turned into the path of an oncoming car and they crashed. If there's a law that says you can go through a red light to yield to an emergency vehicle, who's at fault?

Oh, almost forgot - are 6 way intersections common? I never saw one. I don't think I want to, either. I have enough trouble trying to make it through a little old 4-way!

 

[Kernopelli]

Interesting thread. I have wondered much of this myself from both the perspective of a citizen yielding right of way and an individual actively driving in or escorting an emergency vehicle.
I work for my state's Department of Corrections. We are not Police Officers but Peace Officers, but we do have certain entitlements within the scopes of our duties..... but it all seems to be very grey to me and getting a straight answer from DOC is impossible. I have often been assigned as an escort officer in an ambulance with an injured or sick inmate being transported to an outside hospital or as an armed officer operating a chase vehicle behind the ambulance. I did this only two nights ago and it isn't uncommon for either vehicle to exceed the posted speed limit by as much as 30-35 (or more) MPH in these circumstances. I have often wondered if we are operating within our legal rights and what would the outcome be if this fell under scrutiny from an outside law enforcement agency. I'm not sure this has cleared anything up for me but would like to hear more.