To voucher or not to voucher?

[Phred]

Guys,

What do you think about school vouchers?
Just wondering what folks think about the idea; allowing students to choose the school they desire public or private and their share of the state funds could follow along.

Seems to me that the pros to this are:
1)Adding competition to the school system so that students do not have to languish in a bad public school.
2)Different schools for different goals. Maybe some students want more of a vocation rather than colleague. Colleague prep could be more aggresive in math science and writting skills.
3) Discipline could be instituted. Schools could have the choice of not putting up with students that cause problems.

Negatives:
?

Fred

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

One of the biggest negatives has to do with money (via the vouchers) leaving the schools most in need of it for repairs, improvements and additional programs. The money ends up heading to the newer schools which already have the nicer facilities, etc.

If we were talking about a situation in which all of the schools in the system were identical in every way it might be more viable. The reality is that virtually no school system is like that. Some buildings are newer and others are older. Some have newer equipment than others. Needless to say, everyone will prefer the newer physical plants and equipment, etc., and thus the money leaving the older schools.

Please understand that I like all of the positive aspects you cited. I just don't think the reality will live up to the hype.

 

[Spencer]

I was talking to the excavator who delivered my fill sand about this subject 6 or 8 weeks ago. We agreed on every topic that we talked about until we got to school vouchers. I said that I was for them and he said "well here is where I have to disagree with you". He said "I don't think that I should have to pay to send your kid to a private school". I told him that he really wouldn't be and in fact without vouchers if I send my daughter to private school that not only would I have to pay for her education but I would also be paying to send his kids to public school.

 

[cowboydoc]

ABSOLUTELY!!!

The current school systems are a joke for the most part. Teachers, admin., etc. have no reason at all to do a better job the way that it is. As a parent the schools don't listen to you, teach however and whatever they want because you have no choice if you don't like it. Nevermind the fact that I pay $30k a year in property, state, and sales tax I don't have a say in how my daughters are educated.

I tryed the public schools for one year and am now paying for my kids education at a private school because the public schools were a joke. She now learns to read, write, and do math in a common sense straight forward way where they teach values, respect, and responsibility as well. We got none of that in the public school system.

Just ONE of the example that we had to put up with was math. My daughter was learning math and doing very poorly. I sat down with her to help her and much to my surprise they were teaching math the "new" way. They taught it with the touch point system. You had to touch the number in a certain way and count, add, blah blah blah. She just didn't understand it. My wife and I went to the teacher and I didn't even understand what the heck they were trying to teach. I taught my daughter the old fashioned way to do math. The way we all learned it. In a week she was doing math with ease at home. They had tests every week to test how they were doing at school. My daughter was doing her test and cruising through it. Her teacher asked why she wasn't tapping. She said her dad had taught her to do it in her head and she didn't need to. Her teacher told her she could do it my way at home but she had to do it her way at school. The teacher took her paper and threw it away and gave her a new one and said to do it her way. My daughter came home crying that night because she had once again done poorly on the test.

We went to the school and the principal took the teachers side and said that it didn't matter that my daughter could get a 100 on the test doing it the old way she had to learn the new way. I asked how that possibly mattered. How would it help her in any way function better by doing some touch point math. She said this gets them started and then next year she wouldn't have to use it. Right now they had to keep all the kids doing the same thing and at the same level. I couldn't believe it. My only choice was to stay in this ridiculous system or put her in private school. I chose private school.

I have since learned of many parents for similiar reasons in our area have pulled their kids out of public schools to either home school or put them in private schools. A voucher system sure as heck can't be any worse!!!!

 

[Chuck52]

Around my area, people with school age children are careful about where the school boundaries are drawn when they look to move. We bought our property in the country while our youngest was a junior in high school, and we probably would not have bought it if it had not been in the same school district we had been in. The public schools here are pretty good. Even the ones we wanted to avoid aren't all that bad. It is a shame that some public schools are so bad that vouchers may be a necessary mechanism to insure a decent education for your children. We sent our children to private school when we lived in Puerto Rico because the public school in the area where we lived was incredibly bad, though there were some very good public schools elsewhere on the island. The expense of private schooling was one of many reasons we left there. It sure is troubling to consider how a voucher system might affect even very good public schools, though, and of course there are some. I guess the only way to go is to try it and see. The one private school started here hasn't done all that well, but it might fare better if more folks could afford it. Friends of ours sent their two kids to it, but ended up putting them back in the public school, not because of money, but because they found they were happier with the less than perfect public school than with the less than perfect private school. Free market forces at work!

Chuck

 

[dmccarty]

Cowboydoc,

GRRRRRRRRRRR!

Your story has me boiling and it was not my child!

I don't like the idea of vouchers. I think education should
be free at least until the 12 grade. A democracy has to have
an educated population and I think its critical to have a
decent public school system....

However the more I listen to parents battles with the public
school systems added to my experiences I'm starting to feel
that the cons against public education are outwieghing the
pros. If I'm counting correctly, I went to seven different
schools in 12 years. The schools where in four states. Some
states where bad, LA, the rest where ok. Not, great but not
bad either.

I have heard other storys like you daughters. And the parents
ran into the same kind of administrative wall. I don't think
there is much else to do at that point but start calling the
principal's boss, the school board, and then getting a lawyer.
Also the local news usually likes stories like these as well.

But who needs this kinda cr...p when WE are paying for this
through our high taxes and we don't have any recourse but
to spend more money on a broken system....

Thus back to vouchers. At least this way you get to vote
with your feet to go to a different school.... I don't like
vouchers but I think its the shock the education system needs
and is going to get......

Later,
Dan McCarty

 

[gws]

In the county I live in, you can send you kid to any public school you like. If its outside your "area" you have to provide transportation. Money is split based on student population.

I am lucky, I happen to live in a small town with a local school. Teachers are sometimes 2nd generation teachers at the school and many of the younger teachers attended the school when they were kids. The principal lives 2 blocks from the school, most teachers live with a few miles of the school.
They care about the school and what is taught. Parents are active in the school, NOT JUST PTA, but in the school and the teaching process. Teachers have enough parent helpers you get put on a list for some classes to help. Granted the elementrary school is older and doesnt have A/C, They dont have a state of the art "media center" but they are getting good solid education.

New parents who buy a house based on a school system my be in for a rude awakening when there child is old enough to go to school. I see all to many times, people want to go to the right area for the schools. Everyone flocks to the same area, Now you have overcrowed schools.
Find a solid education program, stop worrying about being in the right place.



Now when you put private schools in the mix, I dont see much of an issue. I am paying X dollars for schools, Why cant I take the money and use it as I best see fit. If I want to use X and add more to it to get into private school, I think I should be able to. As for the old public schools in need to millions of dollars in repair and this would take money from them. Tough, close the school sell the property and provide an enviornment that is acceptable for education. Its got to be a lot cheaper to bus kids across town to a new school than to keep some old 80 year old school running.

 

[gws]

dmccarty, Education has never been free. You pay for it in taxes. People just want to use those same taxes as before.
The voucher system doesnt change what you will pay. Just how you use what you pay.

 

[dmccarty]

gws,

Public education is free in that I don't have to write another
check. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I'm already paying for the "service" one
way or another. I would guess that poor people who can't afford to send their kids off to a private school might actually
get enough tax breaks so that a public education is free.
Course many people without the help of vouchers would have
a tough time paying for private schools. But that is a
digression.

Again, I don't like vouchers because ALL the schools should
be performing at a minimum level. But the realities of the
education system and how it is NOT and will not change for
the better is forcing a voucher system. Hopefully vouchers
will push the public systems to get rid of the bad personnel
and start teaching children to perform at a basic level.

But its sad that it has to be this way....

Later,
Dan

 

[rocky2]

Almost the same thing happened a few years back with my daughter. She was all upset about screwing up a math test, when I reviewed it I couldn't find anything wrong. The answers all came out correct, but were marked wrong. The teacher and principal told me the "new way" was the way being taught. I argued that if a kid is presented with a 5x13=? problem, what difference is it that the kid does 13x5=65 to get the solution. The correct answer is the end solution. All they did was reiterate about the "new way", to which I stated I guess the "new way" is why kids working at the check out can't give change for a $17.10 item they ring up and you give them a 20 dollar bill and a dime. Then I went on a tangent about Steven Hawking and if he followed their thoughts...yada-yada. They gave in and credited for the correct answers.