To voucher or not to voucher?

[PhilNH5]

Rocky2 and Cowboydoc,
It is not just the public schools that do this. We had our daughter in parochial school when we lived in Maryland. In checking her homework one night I realized she did every problem wrong. The lesson was on rounding numbers. She had rounded everything up instead of following the 5 or greater and round up rule. So I explained the rules and worked a few examples. It was also explained in the math book the same way.

Well she takes a test and flunks. She comes home upset 'cause I made her do it wrong. I review the test and her answers are correct. So the next morning I go to school and talk with the teacher. She tells me that ALL of the students flunked. Apparently they all asked their parents for help and got the "right" answers but not the curriculum answers which were based on rounding everything up. To shorten the story - they purchased a math curriculum and were following it. Teacher did agree not to have this test count for the whole class. But the school would not back up and teach the correct way. They simply skipped over that section and moved on to the next topic.

Phil

 

[cowboydoc]

What in the world is wrong with these people that they teach this way? I mean 2+2=4. Yes you can try and come with a thousand screwy ways to teach it and such but it's not wonder our country is the worst at math in the world with this kind of crap going on.

 

[gws]

Re: To voucher or not to voucher?

dmccarty,
Who says you have to write another check to send your kid to another school? Granted a private school might cost you, but Move your kid to another public school.

If you have a voucher system, you will use them, even if its to your local schools. The payment is going to happen one way or another. Again no one is forcing your to go to private schools.

 

[dmccarty]

Re: To voucher or not to voucher?

gws,

Hmmm, move my kid to another public school. Not in the
county I'm currently living. I would be danged lucky to have
my child go to a LOCAL school near the house. As it is now
our PC Socialists who run the education system ship kids
all over the county supposedly for racial balance but mainly
to keep the tests scores up across all the schools so the
teachers get their bonus. I have VERY LITTLE or NO choice
what so ever about where my kid goes in the public schools
in my county.

Now, where the county where my kid will be going to school
only has 5-6 high schools. And its a big county.
If there are problems in the system moving the child is not
an option either. The HS she would go to is relatively local.
Of the three other HS they are at least 20-30 miles away
easy and they are not in a direction we would travel every
day so it would be a huge logistical nightmare to get her to
and from school. Since they are in the same system I doubt
moving them would do much anyway even if I could move her.

I really don't see how using vouchers to go from one school
in the same system does much of anything. Its the system
that is broken. A particular school may have problems but its
the overall system that is broke and needs fixing. I don't
see that happening until schools outside the public system
puts on the pressure.

I have been to good schools and so called bad schools in the
same system. I sure did not see much difference between the
two. In fact some of the best teachers I had where in the
so called bad school.

Later,
Dan

 

[cowboydoc]

Re: To voucher or not to voucher?

I have no doubt that it would work remarkably well around here. The private schools here are absolutely excellent but they are expensive. I also believe that it would work well throughout the country. The only reason we have in this country what we do is because of free enterprise at work. If you don't build a bigger and better mousetrap and have good customer relations you will not be in business very long anymore. Our school systems right now have no direct competition except for those parents that can afford to send their kids to private schools. A voucher system would even out those odds. I say so what if older less functional schools fail. If a good school is overcrowded and doing well then they will build another school to mimic it's success, that's the way things happen in a free enterprise system.

Way too much of this country is under govt. control and I believe that is what is crumbling our system little by little. You get some **** socialists into office and then they have nobody to answer to. They get in their own little world and there is nothing you can do to change it. I'm talking about the county, tax assessors, city officials, etc. If we privatized more govt. programs you would see the budgets drop significantly. Our city administrator makes $235,000. But these idiots keep voting bigger salaries, more benefits, more vacation time, etc. Then we wonder why they keep raising taxes all the time. All I'd like to know is where does this madness end?

 

[PitbullMidwest]

Re: To voucher or not to voucher?

The school system in my town is run by morons. The school board wanted to build a new elementry school but this was defeated at the ballot box twice. So, they closed 3 elementry schools and consolidated them into the remaining schools with a promise that class size would not exceed 20 students. Guess what? They are now complaining that the average class will be 35 and since they have torn down 2 of the buildings and sold the other the only alternative we have is ... you guessed it build a new school.

I received my tax assessment yesterday, 40% goes to the school system and 38% going to city/county public works. On top of their 40% slice of property taxes they also have a 1 cent local option sales tax yet never have enough money. Is this proportion about the same for you guys?

My kids are in private school.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

"Discipline could be instituted" for those too young to recall, discipline was abandoned in government schools thru negotiation with teachers unions. Their reasoning was "teachers are here to teach, not be disciplinarians".
The government school system needs to go back to pre 1960 educational programs, where students were taught, tested, and either advanced or left back depending on test results.
Again, for the young guys, most of my teachers weren't even college graduates, they attended and learned in "normal schools" where they learned to teach what they knew.
Does it cause anyone to wonder, why do "teachers" in government schools need a Masters Degree to teach 1st grade, and instructors in college only need to be teaching assistants a year or so beyond the level they are teaching at?
Government school "teachers" constantly carp that they are professionals, and deserve the pay of professionals with a similar educational background. FINE, they should also work an equal # of hours for the pay, and I ain't buying the crap about all their work after school, I know what bar they congregate at in my district, and I've taken the time to determine how long after school closes they arrive at the bar.
I also have a copy of the current "teachers" union contract, the one specifying exactly how mnay hours & minutes per day they have to have student contact.
The recent arrival of Charter Schools is proving to be another SCAM. Edison School Corp has just admitted they can't deliver after 2 years of screwing kids here. Now, what happens to the kids who were expermented on?
Then again, I just might be all wrong, cause I'm a dinosour who learned to read, write, do math without a calculator, learned antique geography, and history, as well as year upon year of basic science. That must be it, I'm from the Old School, and I know what can be accomplished. I don't even need a STUDY to tell me what can be accomplished by dedicated people who really want to do their job. Performence counts, and the current system ain't performing.

 

[MJB]

Re: To voucher or not to voucher?

On my house the school tax is about double the town/county tax. This is in central New York, where the politicians never saw a tax they didn't like.

 

[TimSullivan]

<font color=blue>"Discipline could be instituted" for those too young to recall, discipline was abandoned in government schools thru negotiation with teachers unions. Their reasoning was "teachers are here to teach, not be disciplinarians".</font color=blue>

Franz,

How do you teach a class without maintaining discipline? To say that public school teachers are not disciplinarians as well as instructors shows that you have not been to a public school for a very long time. Please arrange to visit your local school and ask to sit in on a variety of classes. I think that you would change your negative feelings about public schools. If I were not retired, I would invite you to visit the district and building where I worked. A teacher does not survive in todays classroom without mantaining control of the educational environment.

 

[TimSullivan]

I spent 31 years in education and visited many school districts in the Northeast as a part of an evaluation team.

There is a big difference between school districts and the ability to educate their students. There are a variety of reasons but as usual most times it comes down to money. Sometimes it can be that a community is willing to pay a little extra to attract the best teachers and administrators. The success of a school district still comes down to what happens in the classroom. Parental involvement in the school community and in the support of their child’s academic work is also very important. If the parents see the value of education and stress this with their children then the teacher has a fighting chance to make every student successful.

My family changed school districts to allow us to become involved with the most successful school district in our area. We sold our home and move to a different town to make this happen. I have never regretted that decision. There are many reasons why the school district is the way it is. Taxes are not cheap but the best never is.

Vouchers are a way of allowing parents to select a different school setting for their children. There are many pitfalls in the programs I have have seen but I would like to hear from people who have been involved in the programs on a personal level.

The bottom line is get your children into the best schools you can by any means. The quality of their education will effect the success for the rest of their life.