TODAY'S GUN TIME

[Buggs67]

Do you have a reference for that bufffalo info? That story seemed to die after the school shooting and I haven't seen anything half reliable about what happened/videos.

Body armor, worn by the Buffalo shooter, faces far fewer regulations than guns

A security guard at the Tops market tried to fire back at the shooter, but his fire struck body armor instead. Experts say use of body armor by mass shooters has trended up in recent years.

www.npr.org

I saw one site that sells 11x14 armour panels to go in a backpack

 

[fatjay]

Lot's of great points I won't/don't feel the need to argue...I also haven't done more than pull the trigger on the FN a few times so not much time. But I think this point is worth highlighting here as all the sales pitches are about armor defeat. So, as always if armor suspected (and you won't know the level) just don't shoot the armor...and that's a good TTP if you're shooting pistol, shotgun, or rifle just look at what happened with the bank robbers in LA which didn't end until one shot himself and the other was shot in the ankle and those guys were taking pistol, shotgun, and rifle hits repeatedly.

Do you have a reference for that bufffalo info? That story seemed to die after the school shooting and I haven't seen anything half reliable about what happened/videos.

Security guard killed in Buffalo shooting hailed as a hero

A retired police officer who worked as a security guard at the Buffalo supermarket where a gunman shot and killed 10 people Saturday was hailed for his bravery, with officials saying his actions before he was struck down likely saved the lives of others. Aaron Salter Jr., who worked on the...

www.winknews.com

Aaron Salter Jr., who worked on the Buffalo Police Department for decades before retiring several years ago, according to the Buffalo News, confronted the suspected gunman inside Tops Friendly Markets, officials said. Salter’s shots failed to penetrate the armored vest of the suspected gunman, later identified as 18-year-old Payton Gendron, and the gunman returned fire, killing Salter.

I know, the details of it dried up pretty quickly. Annoying how it is. Also, new york has now banned the civilian purchase of body armor.

 

[IrishLoader]

Lot's of great points I won't/don't feel the need to argue...I also haven't done more than pull the trigger on the FN a few times so not much time. But I think this point is worth highlighting here as all the sales pitches are about armor defeat. So, as always if armor suspected (and you won't know the level) just don't shoot the armor...and that's a good TTP if you're shooting pistol, shotgun, or rifle just look at what happened with the bank robbers in LA which didn't end until one shot himself and the other was shot in the ankle and those guys were taking pistol, shotgun, and rifle hits repeatedly.

Do you have a reference for that bufffalo info? That story seemed to die after the school shooting and I haven't seen anything half reliable about what happened/videos.

And there Gentle....Men is the "chink" in the whole armor argument. I am not going to bring up North Hollywood because that horse has been dead forever and your average critter, at least recently, has only used a plate carrier or vest. The plates in my kit are IV, rated to Black Tip from a .30-06. I highly doubt I'll ever face a threat like that again and unlikely that the critters near here have stumbled on any MilSurp. That said, look up "T-Box" drills or targets and do some practical exercises on your own. Any excuse to get on the "happy switch" is a good one right?

The 5.7 while achieving impressive velocities for a handgun, can be improved, a 16 inch barrel of a carbine exploits this and then some. But how many AR's in 5.7 have we seen on the news? 0%. Further more the ammo for the test listed below that did defeat IIIA armor is restricted to Big Brother and LEO.


5.7x28mm Versus Body Armor -

So that is that for the 5.7x28mm penetration test. To surmise:

• SS197 sporting ammunition from a handgun will not penetrate IIIA armor
• SS190 armor piercing ammunition from a handgun will defeat soft body armor
• 5.7 from a 16″ barrel will slice through body armor, but only FMJ will defeat stronger stuff
• Surplus German helmets are really, really strong

I hope I didn't upset anyone with my separation of the word gentleman up top. It wasn't intended to, but to illustrate a point, one that many in todays "civil" society have either forgotten or too ignorant to do their own due diligence. Years ago when the wearing of a long pointy thing was sometimes needed, one was considered a "gentleman" unless the situation dictated he act by using said long pointy thingy. By separating the word I marked the difference between the two and hope you all draw the same conclusion. We are all Gentlemen, until such time when fate has dictated that we are not by "unsheathing" our desired tool to mitigate a threat.

 

[IrishLoader]

I'll just add this, I was not throwing shade on the 5.7. To each his own, although the cost alone makes me shy from it. I have enough calibers to reload with out adding a new flavor to the mix.

 

[sea2summit]

Body armor, worn by the Buffalo shooter, faces far fewer regulations than guns

A security guard at the Tops market tried to fire back at the shooter, but his fire struck body armor instead. Experts say use of body armor by mass shooters has trended up in recent years.

www.npr.org

I saw one site that sells 11x14 armour panels to go in a backpack

Finally got a chance to read it...pure anti-body armor propaganda. Why am I not surprised.

 

[RobertEH]

Reloading for the 5.7 is tricky. Special brass treatment and the risk of high pressures is very real. I load for about 30 cartridges from 204 Ruger to 505 Gibbs and the 5.7 is the only one that makes me nervous.

 

[sea2summit]

Reloading for the 5.7 is tricky. Special brass treatment and the risk of high pressures is very real. I load for about 30 cartridges from 204 Ruger to 505 Gibbs and the 5.7 is the only one that makes me nervous.

Do you anneal it?

 

[RobertEH]

The 5.7 brass has a lacquer on it. You are not supposed to even tumble. Ultrasonic is the recommended way to clean the brass.

Regarding Annealing, I would think that would be bad for the lacquer as well!

 

[fatjay]

Reloading for the 5.7 is tricky. Special brass treatment and the risk of high pressures is very real. I load for about 30 cartridges from 204 Ruger to 505 Gibbs and the 5.7 is the only one that makes me nervous.

I haven't started reloading 5.7 yet but I'm getting there. From what I understand, you simply soak the brass in a simple green solution instead of tumbling it, so you don't get rid of the coating. 5.7 has a special coating that allows it to properly chamber and extract because it's not a tapered shell, unlike pretty much all other cartridges. This allows the p90 magazines to stack 50 deep without having the curves like AR or scorpion magazines.

 

[RobertEH]

Yeah, I have heard simple green and/or an ultrasonic is the way to go.

I paused my reloading efforts for the 5.7 after my first 20 or so. The shoulders were not bumping back far enough and I had cratering primer strikes with starting loads. I picked up a new die and have plans to try again but I have not messed with it since given I don't shoot the 5.7 very often.

I do really like the way my FN shoots though!