toolcat aux. hydraulics

[capt_met]

hello all,
i have a Bobcat B300. it is a great machine and i enjoy the 4 wheel drive and 4 wheel steering probably as much as you all do. my problem is the B300 doesn't have high flow aux. hydraulics. my hydraulic flow is directly related to how much throttle speed i am using. i was wondering if anyone knows how this was done diffrently for the toolcat to allow the use of more attachments? is the aux hydraulics hooked to a separate pump? i may try as i get more info to toolcatify my B300. any help would be appreciated.
thanks,
metin

 

[BrianSouthernMD]

capt_met,
Good to hear from another Bobcat all-wheel-steer machine owner, esp. someone who wants to "Toolcatify" his B300 loader backhoe, which shares parts such as engine with the Toolcat. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Remind me, is the B300 one of the models based on the Earthforce units Ingersoll-Rand acquired, or did Bobcat just use that Eastern European manufacturing and technical capability to help design and build a new series of compact 4WS loader backhoes? I like the look of the B300's loader lift arm.

I see the Bobcat B300D AWS loader backhoe has loader hydraulic pump capacity of 14.6 GPM; the Toolcat's standard auxillary hydraulic flow is 18 GPM, with 3000 psi. And the Toolcat also offers optional 26 GPM high-flow hydraulics. (Of course the B300 has both loader and backhoe aux. hydraulics.)

Having that 18GPM and/or 26 GPM available does open the Toolcat to a lot more hydraulic attachment possibilities. I want to check a few more things before I detail how the Toolcat aux. hydraulics function; hopefully others will post their understandings and also suggest various ways you might be able to "Toolcatify" your B300! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[capt_met]

as i understand the historyof the tlb's it goes something like this. earthforce was building them in europe, IR bought earthforce, they were then sold as IR machines in the U.S., as IR began trying to make them more standardized with the bobcat line bobcat started selling them. IR is also selling them now as well. same machine diffrent color and stickers. IR also has a 56 HP model same as the toolcat. i haven't figured out why they haven't addressed the hydraulic flow issue though. does a toolcats flow depend on how much throttle is being used? with the B300 for me to get the flow up to use the brushcat would have my speed too fast for it to work. i appreciate the reply and hopefully can come up with a way to fix this. i think there should be a way to bring in an aux. pump to drive high flow hydraulics that won't be related to the throttle. we'll see.
thanks,
metin

 

[keeney]

The only way to make aux pump flow higher without increasing the engine RPM's would be to use an even higher displacement pump that would provide the desired flow at the desired lower RPM's. BUT, the required torque to produce the same flow with the higher displacement pump turning slower goes up, so its not clear if the total available HP equation works out. You might be able to get the flow but not the full pressure at that flow without bogging down the engine.

In this situation, you might want to use a variable displacement pump with load sensing slaved to flow demand. Then it would always provide the commanded flow regardless of engine RPM's. An even more deluxe system would add power limiting to the control circuit to make sure you don't bog the input engine down by drawing more HP than it can provide at that RPM (flow would be reduced under higher pressure loads).

26 GPM at 3000 PSI is around 40 HP net at the hydraulic connector - most of the output of the engine at peak HP, much less some slower RPM. Of course, you are not using the full pressure all the time when mowing - you mostly just need the high tip speed.

So another solution would be to use a smaller displacement hydraulic motor on the mower to produce a higher blade speed (with less torque) at the same lower flow.

- Rick

 

[capt_met]

i appreciate the replies. i'm thinking to get what i am looking for might be more trouble than it is worth. it wouldn't be too hard to increase the horsepower. i think adding a turbo would bring it up 10 horsepower. if i did that it would be the same machine as the IR 56 HP tlb. i guess similar to the turbo and non turbo toolcats. that would give a little more power but then the hydraulic adapting would still have to be done. i guess the best solution would be to spend the money that would go to hopping up the B300 toward a skid steer. then have even more options for other things. something to keep in mind though the next time i get to talk to the bobcat service techs.
thanks,
metin