Top and Tilt for 4200

hazmat · Dec 1, 2002

When registering on the JD parts site I got a message that said my info was being redirected to a nonsecure site. Did that happen to you? Do you know what that is all about? 

Yes. What is happening is that the registration & login pages are secure, but the actual "parts catalog" isn't.

I haven't tried to buy anything from them, as my local dealer isn't listed as a pick up place (I have a JD weedwacker). Don't know if they are looking for credit card numbers or if you simply pay when you pick it up. Obviously you want to be sure it is secure when you are filling out your personal info & credit card #'s. No need to worry if some hacker is looking at the parts breakdown of a combine, he probably isn't very interested in that.

hazmat · Dec 6, 2002

Gary,

Any news from your hydraulic guy?

Here's the parts I see you needing:
(1) 2 spool valve
(6) hoses to cylinders (1 each suppply & return to each cylinder and supplu & return to BH hydraulic quick connectors)
(2) cylinders (Top & Tilt)

The trick will be finding cylinders that have the correct stroke, end fittings, and retracted measurements.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.baileynet.com/Intro.asp>Bailynet</A> has all the parts you need & even custom makes cylinders. Your hyd guy might have a local source.

Gary_in_Indiana · Dec 7, 2002

"any news from your hydraulics guy?'

I also spoke with him yesterday and heagrees with you totally that "The trick will be finding cylinders that have the correct stroke, end fittings, and retracted measurements." He wanted to do some measurements on my 3PH which, unfortunately, isn't on my tractor right now as I'm still using the backhoe on stumps, etc.

Ironically, I spoke with the local Deere dealer yesterday when he called me back from my visit there a week earlier. He's been able to find out nothing from Deere on this other than the fact that his $750 quote to me then for "everything needed" for their Top and Tilt "package" for the 4210 (Deere still doesn't list it as an item for the 4200) was incorrect as it didn't include controllers (which I told him at the time). Now he tells me with what I need would run a total of $1475 + tax and installation. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif That's with no guarantee it'll even work but, even if it doesn't, I get socked with a 15% "restocking fee" on everything. While I'd like to see one, I'm not willing to pay over $200 to do so. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

I would love to find someone here who either has one of those packages OR who has already made one so I could get some insight from them as to what sizes of cylinders, etc., I should need but, thus far, I've had no luck there. /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif

This dealer doesn't stock the parts so I can't see them here and Deere corporate doesn't offer anything with measurments on their website or parts catalogs that I could find. I might try calling their customer service/customer relations department Monday to see if they can (or are willing to) be of any help.

The only thing I have to go by at this point is a picture of one on a Kubota that I downloaded from another post here. It wasn't even a picture of the poster's tractor. He said he thought it was Bird's. /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

Nonetheless, I'm going to move ever onward and upward here. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird · Dec 7, 2002

Gary, I don't know whether the picture was mine or not, but my Kubota dealer said the kit that Kubota has for the larger tractors was about $1,400 and I spent over $800 buying components and doing my B2710 since Kubota didn't offer a kit for that.

JimMc · Dec 7, 2002

Bird, have you posted pictures of your setup? I'm working out the details on a system now and would like to see how you did yours.

ronjhall · Dec 8, 2002

Jim
All the pictures that Bird posted on his project that were posted in 2000 are no longer available on TBN. The pictures he posted in <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=owning&Number=32151&fpart=1> Hydraulic Tip 'N Tilt - OK, Top 'N Tilt. I have all the pictures on Top and Tilt that are missing and others saved. If you would like these pictures, I can copy them to a CD and mail them to you. Send me a private message with a mailing address.

Bird · Dec 8, 2002

Thanks, Ron, you saved me from having to hunt for them./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif And Jim, you need to look at what Ron did to his; I think it's better than what I did. And LarryT had a nice set up, too, if I remember right. However, I, too, still have the old pictures of mine on my computer and can e-mail or post them if anyone wants them.

JimMc · Dec 8, 2002

I checked the old threads and found many of the pics were no longer available. I would greatly appreciate any input or discoveries you made as well as wish lists. If you don't want to post them here, please email them to me at jimmc@midwest.net . My snail mail address is Jim McCuan, 920 Bauman Lane, Harrisburg, IL 62946.

I like the idea of using one tilt cylinder in combination with the manually adjustable tilt link already on most tractors but would rather have the hydraulic on the right. On my tractors, and most I can think of, the adjustable link can be moved to the left and the hydraulic unit installed on the right. Do you know of any exceptions to this?

I have a design for internally threaded cylinders that will accept end connections (clevis, ball, etc.) as needed to fit most tractors with only a couple of cylinders. This would allow dealers to stock cylinder and valve kits and use ends as needed rather than trying to stock complete kits for every tractor.

I also plan to use a joystick control rather than the 2 lever style. Push left for left tilt, right for right tilt, forward for tip forward and back for tip to rear. Any drawbacks to that you can think of? Seems more intuitive to me and I believe I can keep the cost down.

How about flow adjustment? Would it be of use to be able to slow the action down for fine tuning adjustment or for tapering and feathering. I can do that with a knob adjustment to control the flow, or a proportional valve (push a little it's slow, push all the way for fast). The adjustable orifice is less expensive, but the proportional valve sure is sweet.

Now that you've been using yours, how much tilt do you use? Do you make use of the total stroke or stay withing a coupl of inches?

One of the things I think would make this very useful is in combination with our quick hitch. The implements could be sitting out of level quite a bit and using the tilt or tip functions you could still snatch them up. The biggest advantage of the Delta or Freedom hitch is the amount of compliance for not being perfectly lined up with the implement.

Thanks for all your input. Please feel free to comment. I appreciate all the help from TBN.

Bird · Dec 8, 2002

Move the adjustable side link from the right side to the left side and put the hydraulic cylinder on the right side? Yep, that's just what I did. I can't find all my old pictures like I thought I could; must have deleted some of them, but I think you can see the cylinders all right in the attached picture with the box blade tilted all the way back.

Joystick, instead of two levers, sounds like a better idea to me, although I used the two levers that came with the valve.

Flow adjustment? I thought mine worked too fast and inquired about putting flow restrictors in the lines; decided it was just too expensive, and after I got used to gently using the levers, decided I really didn't need the flow restrictors anyway.

And under different conditions, I did use the full stroke in both directions on the hydraulic cylinders sometimes. Other times, of course, you only want slight adjustments.

Hydraulic top 'n tilt would work great with quick attach systems, but I didn't have any quick attach. However, the hydraulics still were a considerable help in hooking up the old fashioned way, too.

Bird · Dec 8, 2002

The attached picture is the two spool Tisco valve that I used, but the two levers shown were the wrong ones. The dealer had to order the right ones and I exchanged them after this picture was made.