Top And Tilt Revisited...

[Bobm]

Howdy TBN’ers –

I have a Top N Tilt issue that I don’t believe has been addressed in any of the previous threads concerning TNT or TCC (Terrain Contour Control). My L5450 has Kubota’s TNT installed on it. The entire unit was manufactured for Kubota by Gannon (now Woods). In my case, as per the attached pic, you can see there are dual tilt cylinders as well as the single top link cylinder. The end result (which Bird diligently observed in a past TNT thread) is that the Gannon dual tilt cylinder set-up gives significantly more tilt (9+” measured at end of lower link) than the TCC set-ups. While this is good while using a box scraper, there is a cost…it reduces the lift height of the entire hitch by approximately 5” to 6” for normal (level) implement operations.

When using tilt, the Gannon unit (via single joy stick) provides pressure to one lower link cylinder thereby reducing its effective length. The other lower link cylinder remains passive. When reversing the tilt, there is a detent when the lower links level (both lower cylinders equally extended as in pic) and if continuing to reverse the tilt, the other lower cylinder begins to contract. At no time do both cylinders contract.

For implement applications that don’t use any tilt function, I would like to be able to simultaneously raise BOTH lower link cylinders and thus increase the total lift height of the implement. Is this possible? My solution (not yet attempted) is to disconnect one tilt cylinder from TNT system, connect the same tilt cylinder to my extra remote and thus be able to raise both cylinders albeit in a cobby fashion.

Any suggestions are appreciated. I’m getting tired of taking the entire TNT affair off (and replacing with original top link and bottom connecting arms) when I truly need that last 6” or so of implement lift height.

 

[Bird]

I had not seen the Kubota TNT before, and what you described sounds like a bit of a poor design to me, because I'm like you in thinking there should be a way to retract both lower link cylinders when you want to. Just offhand, I can't think of any better solution than the one you're proposed. Let us know how it works, or whether you find a better solution.

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> My solution (not yet attempted) is to disconnect one tilt cylinder from TNT system, connect the same tilt cylinder to my extra remote and thus be able to raise both cylinders albeit in a cobby fashion </font>

I have been thinking of using two tilt cylinders on my tractor, when I get around to putting together a T&T setup.

From what I have seen a joy stick just replaces two seperate control valve handles in many cases. So it would seem to me you could take off the joystick and replace it with two individual control handles, and work the cylinders independently. That is what I intend to do. That way you can retract both cylinders fully, and whatever you have on the 3PH should be lever with the tractor for certain, without even looking...and get max 3PH lift at the same time...

Seems to me the answer would be to replace the joy stick with two seperate handles if that is possible with the Gannon control valves...and I would bet it is... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Inspector507]

The problem with replacing the joystick with 2 separarte valves for the tilt cylinders, would be the loss of the top link control.
I think I have an idea, but let me put it on paper and think about it for a minute.

 

[Inspector507]

Tell me if this might work......
Redo the hoses so that the "feed" hose is common to each cylinder by way of a hydraulic block or "T" if you will. Do the same with the "return" hose.
Now, cut a diverter (with one port plugged) or an electric solenoid into the lines on one side cylinder only.
With the diverters or solenoids open, both side links will lengthen or retract at the same time. Get them to the length you want the ONE to be and close the diverters/solenoids. Now the joystick will continue to control the remaning cylinder only. The solenoids/diverters are 12V operated, so it's just a flip of a switch.

Please see the attached (very crude) drawing.

This may cause a porblem if both cylinders are not at the same length when opening up the diverters to control them simultaniously again.

 

[Inspector507]

Or use diverters where the hoses come off the control.......and then run one side of the diverter to one cylinder and the other side to the other cylinder. That way the flip of a switch and you control one cylinder, flip it again and control the other one.

 

[Henro]

I may have misunderstood...but it sounded like the joystick was operating the two cylinders and not the top link...

IF that is the case...then taking the joystick off and using two handles would likely be an option...if the setup some how also includes the top link as part it...well, not sure... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Bobm]

Thanks Bird, Henro & Inspector !

Yep, Henro, the joystick controls both side and top tilt cylinders.

Inspector, I may have solved my own problem by staring and scratching. Attached is poor copy of the Kubota TNT schematic. In the schematic, pressure would be simultaneously provided to either top or bottom port of both lower link cylinders... I can't see how this setup would provide tilt - just simultaneous up and down movement of both cylinders... which is what I wanted!! Am I in error in making this observation? The same schematic is shown three times in the Kubota TNT Operator and Parts Manual.

Yet, in the following post is a pic of how my tractor was plumbed. I think you can see the hoses going to the bottom cylinders are crossed... as they ought to be! My TNT has worked admirably since birth and thus I must assume it is "correct".

What do you guys think? Just switch one set of hoses on one of the cylinders (as per the schematic) and I ought to have what I'm looking for? Or back to the mental drawing board?

 

[Bobm]

Here's the pic of my set-up... whatcha all think? Thanks in advance!

 

[MadReferee]

If I am looking at the picture and the schematic correctly you actually have a 3 spool valve there. The first set of work ports go to the top link. The middle set are teed between the 2 tilt links. The third set is plumbed as an unused remote.

Now if your joystick controls the first and second ports (top link and tilt links) do you have another lever to control the third set of work ports?