Top Ten Facts about Ethanol

[Charlie_in_TX]

Steve, not against hydrogen. Not trying to sound like I was. I would like to see more nuclear plants also. I don't care if they generate electricity or h2. Just so long as it takes the place of some petro imports.

 

[VT_Hokie]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I believe we can find a better raw material for ethanol production then corn. Corn is right on the edge as far as actually taking more energy to produce ethanol then what you get out of it. )</font>

I have a couple of questions...

Where does the Fertilizer to grow the corn come from? Is this a renewable source???

What is the current price on a bushel of corn of the type used in fermentation? Just courious on the initial raw material cost.

 

[Surge]

Corn production:
Also applies to Soybean except for nitrogen.. Soy Plants produce their own nitrogen nodules.... A very brief agronomy profile..... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

NPK + Insecticides & Herbicides

N- Nitrogen
Primary source's are either dry form, urea: liquid gas form, anhydrous ammonia or liquid form: UAN - Urea Ammonium nitrate... all produced from nitrogen natural gas or from gasification of coal or petroleum coke... Moved to end use market by either barge, pipeline, truck or rail or combination of two dependent upon production point and end use market.

P- Phosphorus ie: Phosphates

Primary source is phosphate rock deposits (former fish/animal bone deposits) in Florida, Wyoming, North Carolina, Idaho, Canada or offshore origins such as Togo or Morocco. This ore is reacted with Sulphuric Acid to produce Phosphoric Acid (also in most soda pop by the way as a preservative and gives you that bite on the tip of your lip /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif) which is then ammoniated with Anhydrous Ammonia so that it also has a nitrogen content. Phosphates are generally 11-52=0 which is 11% nitrogen, 52% Phosphate, and 0% K.

Generally spread in dry form but can be solutionized.

K - Potassium

Derived from Sylvinite ore deposits in Canada, Russia, Michigan (liquid extraction) and New Mexico, US with production close to the mine source. Ore is crushed and then water solutionized with short chain amines which separate the potassium from other minerals mixed in such as iron, sand etc.. This is shipped in dry form by rail, truck and barge or combination thereof...

Spread in dry form, but can be solutionized.....

Application amounts vary on soil type, conditions etc.. By the way, all of the above, generally in dry form, in micro amounts are also in feed for cattle, chickens, pigs etc. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif NPK the essential nutrients to life that we also uptake from the plants and animals we eat.... They production and expansion of use (along with the insect and weed control chemicals) has allowed an acre of land, in Iowa for example, to increase production from 60-80 bushels an acre in the 1930's to well over 200 bushels an acre in the new Millennium... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Might add on the renewable source question... No, none are renewable... The (N) natural gas is a finite source obviously, but plenty of it for now.. not sure on what the anticipated production limit is in terms of years. We do have hundreds of years of coal reserves that could be gasified. The (P) phosphate rock is limited, in terms of vast quantities, but if I recall, reserves are in the hundred plus years of known economically recoverable reserves.. The (K) is might as well be termed to be unlimited... the vast sylvinite reserve in Canada is an eliptical bed "tilted" stretching from Saskatchewan starting at depth appx. 3500 ft. (the layer is about 15 ft think) covering parts of Manitoba, Minnesota, Ontario, Wisconsin, Michigan (7500 ft.) , Indiana into Ohio. So I don't think we will run out of that resource anytime soon.....

 

[Gator6x4]

Brazil will reportedly not need to import gasoline at the end of 2006. Iceland, France and several other countries are moving ahead with reducing their need to import large amounts of crude. I think all cars manafactured or sold in Brazil now are flex fuel. We on the other hand in the USA continue down the same path. BURN GASOLINE ONLY. A large percentage still beleive we will never run out of crude oil. A large percentage still beleive the urban legend a gentleman named Fish invented a carburetor in the fifties that would provide 70-80 miles per gallon. I personally think at out present rate of consumption it will be sooner, not later. Other countries are now placing large demands on the crude available for sale. China is ramping up to become the world's largest user. Gas companies love the Amercian consumer. They have record profits each quarter. They say the profits are realized through efficient management. We continue to send the same people back to Federal, State and local political offices their interest seems to be receiving money and other perks from lobbist. Guess what they are lobbying for. Our money. Bush until his state of the Union message this year avoided pointing the USA down the path of engery conservation. If I had children or grandchildren, I would be concerned about energy resources and their cost in the future. I would also be very concerned that elected officals in the USA do not seem to think alternative engery sources is a high priorty. From watching televison it seems they are only focused on whether a woman has rights, sex, politics and religion.

 

[tkcomer]

Brazil has been on this path for over 30 years. It would take us years to swap over. The problem is, we have to start. But we will never start with a 95% re-election rate that these politicians have. Let’s face it. The problem is us. By putting these bozos back into office year after year.

 

[Builder]

Anyone read the article about Sweden and their energy policies? They are the "greenest" country in the world. I think it was 30% of their city buses run on waste fuel.

Everything we want to do to get off oil can be done. It's the American mindset of planning for tomorrow rather than 5 years down the road and our governments crummy energy policies that are keeping us on the middle eastern oil nipple.