Top & Tilt Suggestion

Gem99ultra · May 19, 2012

The right setup (for me):

I haven't seemed to find anyone that really enjoys hooking up implements. I know that I don't! But, I think I've found one combination that makes it a little less painful.

Basic requirement: Pat's Quick Change for the lower arms. Saves bruised feet (kicking the arms in place).

Stabilizer bar to keep the arms the proper distance.

Top & Tilt remotes with quick connects. I prefer 3 remotes for this.
1 for lower arm tilt.
1 for top link
1 extra for a pressure gage with quick change connector.

I bought the Pat's QC right after I got my little Kubota L3400. Sure - that helped. But I still had to fight the lower links, often using a spud bar or floor jack.

Then I read about the Top & Tilt being so great, so I had to have one. Yep - that eased the pain a lot. But not completely. What I discovered was that I could not tilt my rake nor box blade to the proper angle to smooth dirt. Same with a plow. The tilt angle had been shortened by 4" due to the added length by Pat's QC on the lower arms. Not blaming them, but the geometry was thrown off.

I corrected that this weekend by changing out the standard 8" stroke on most, if not all, top & tilt kits, for a 11" stroke cylinder. Any less would not have completely corrected the lower arm extension. A 12" stroke cylinder might have been better, but the 11" one at full extension is right on.

So, my tidbit for the day is that if you're about to buy a Top & Tilt, check your measurements before you buy. You'll probably find that the 8" stroke cylinder is not long enough if you also have a quick hitch on your lower arms.

TNhobbyfarmer · May 19, 2012

Gem99ultra said:
So, my tidbit for the day is that if you're about to buy a Top & Tilt, check your measurements before you buy. You'll probably find that the 8" stroke cylinder is not long enough if you also have a quick hitch on your lower arms.

I recently installed the Pat's system. Works great so now I want a hydraulic top link. In your tidbit for the day you say "check your measurements before you buy". What is the proper way to check?
Edit: I reread you post. I'm now thinking that you are saying that the 8" travel is only a problem with hydraulic tilt. I only plan on getting a hydraulic top link, not tilt also. Will the 8" travel be a problem with this setup?

npalen · May 19, 2012

I have a question that hopefully follows the lines of this thread:
Is it possible with a short enough top link to tilt the implement, when it's fully raised, to a near vertical position? Example would be where it's desired to use the tractor drawbar while leaving an implement, such as a blade or box blade, attached but tilted up out of the way.
I'm sure this could be determined by laying out the 3PT geometry to scale but thought I would ask in case someone has tried it.
Edit: I'm assuming that the top link would be hydraulic.

Gem99ultra · May 20, 2012

TNHobbyFarmer, No problem with the tilt. Only hitch I ran into was the top link. But - if you're going to add the tilt, why not go ahead with the top link? Sure makes changing angles a LOT more convenient. I bought my (correct) top link from Surplus Center, one of our sponsors, and am very pleased with it, pricewise and quality.

I suppose that the simplest way (for me) to measure the top link requirement would be to hook up the lower arms to the implement and use a floor jack to tilt it to the most forward angle needed; that would be when the top link is fully extended. Then measure from the eyelet on the tractor to the eyelet on the implement.

The back angle is seldom a problem since most top links can close up, be it screw in or compress in with hydraulics, as far as one wants.

You could calculate the additional travel needed. But for me, seeing is believing ;-)

Gem99ultra · May 20, 2012

Npalen, I don't think you'll have any trouble with the height of the implement to clear the drawbar as long as you're not needing to raise the drawbar all that much. Just to lift it just above the horizontal plane of the drawbar shouldn't be any problem. Don't forget though, with something like a boxblade raised all the way up so you have a straight shot to your drawbar - you're moving a lot of weight up over the center of gravity, even though it is on the rear.

I did have a problem with a too short of top link before though when lifting a homemade subsoiler. The subsoiler was made for a tall tractor and hit the back of my chair when I raised it too much. You probably won't have any such trouble with a boxblade or other properly built implement though.

Zebrafive · May 20, 2012

TNhobbyfarmer said:
I recently installed the Pat's system. Works great so now I want a hydraulic top link. In your tidbit for the day you say "check your measurements before you buy". What is the proper way to check?
Edit: I reread you post. I'm now thinking that you are saying that the 8" travel is only a problem with hydraulic tilt. I only plan on getting a hydraulic top link, not tilt also. Will the 8" travel be a problem with this setup?

I think he's saying the 8" toplink was a problem due to the 4" length the Pat's QC added to the lower links of the three point hitch. So he needed a toplink 4" longer too.

TNhobbyfarmer · May 20, 2012

Gem99ultra said:
TNHobbyFarmer, No problem with the tilt. Only hitch I ran into was the top link. But - if you're going to add the tilt, why not go ahead with the top link? Sure makes changing angles a LOT more convenient. I bought my (correct) top link from Surplus Center, one of our sponsors, and am very pleased with it, pricewise and quality.

I suppose that the simplest way (for me) to measure the top link requirement would be to hook up the lower arms to the implement and use a floor jack to tilt it to the most forward angle needed; that would be when the top link is fully extended. Then measure from the eyelet on the tractor to the eyelet on the implement.

The back angle is seldom a problem since most top links can close up, be it screw in or compress in with hydraulics, as far as one wants.

You could calculate the additional travel needed. But for me, seeing is believing ;-)

Gem99; I measured the manual top link that came with the tractor, center hole to center hole fully extended 33.75" and fully shortened 21". So I have over 12" of travel. Fit Rite Hydraulics, owned by a member here on TBN, has three variations of their category 1 HTLs as follows:
8" 17.5 - 25.5
10" 19.5 - 29.5
12" 21.5 - 33.5

I emailed them and told them my tractor, Kubota L3430 and requested their recommendation. They came back and recommended the 8" version. However, I failed to mention to them that I had the Pat's system. Then I read your post and that got me to thinking. I haven't ordered a HTL yet so I still have the opportunity to adjust my thinking. I am now thinking that I need at least the 10" version or maybe even the 12" version.

If anyone else reading this has thoughts, please do not hesitate to put in your 2 cents. I value all opinions.

Also, I only have one set of remotes so a hydraulic side link is not in my plans.

MrChris · May 20, 2012

TNhobbyfarmer said:
Gem99; I measured the manual top link that came with the tractor, center hole to center hole fully extended 33.75" and fully shortened 21". So I have over 12" of travel. Fit Rite Hydraulics, owned by a member here on TBN, has three variations of their category 1 HTLs as follows:
8" 17.5 - 25.5
10" 19.5 - 29.5
12" 21.5 - 33.5

I emailed them and told them my tractor, Kubota L3430 and requested their recommendation. They came back and recommended the 8" version. However, I failed to mention to them that I had the Pat's system. Then I read your post and that got me to thinking. I haven't ordered a HTL yet so I still have the opportunity to adjust my thinking. I am now thinking that I need at least the 10" version or maybe even the 12" version.

If anyone else reading this has thoughts, please do not hesitate to put in your 2 cents. I value all opinions.

Also, I only have one set of remotes so a hydraulic side link is not in my plans.

If your manual top link has worked well over that range I would think you should go with the 12" throw. My mechanical top link range of use with existing attachments was from 24" to 29.5" so I decided to go with a hydraulic link that has an 11" throw fom 21" min to 32" max. Assuring hopefully, it will have adequate range for any future attachments I get. I also had only one pair of remotes with a single spool so I added a simple manual diverter to give me two sets of remotes with my single control. This allowed me to add the side hydraulic link to have full TnT.

MtnViewRanch · May 20, 2012

TNhobbyfarmer said:
Gem99; I measured the manual top link that came with the tractor, center hole to center hole fully extended 33.75" and fully shortened 21". So I have over 12" of travel. Fit Rite Hydraulics, owned by a member here on TBN, has three variations of their category 1 HTLs as follows:
8" 17.5 - 25.5
10" 19.5 - 29.5
12" 21.5 - 33.5

I emailed them and told them my tractor, Kubota L3430 and requested their recommendation. They came back and recommended the 8" version. However, I failed to mention to them that I had the Pat's system. Then I read your post and that got me to thinking. I haven't ordered a HTL yet so I still have the opportunity to adjust my thinking. I am now thinking that I need at least the 10" version or maybe even the 12" version.

If anyone else reading this has thoughts, please do not hesitate to put in your 2 cents. I value all opinions.

Also, I only have one set of remotes so a hydraulic side link is not in my plans.