Towing a Case 580

[RayCo]

Hi all. My father-in-law has a 2000 (I believe) Case 580 Super L. He doesn't know any exact numbers of the weight of this machine, but thinks it's 11,000 pounds or so. I think it's probably more like 13,000, but let's assume it's at least under 15,000. Any time I see a machine like this or a similar one being towed, it's always with a large dump truck or some other Peterbilt-ish type of truck.

I also sometimes see diesel duallie F350's with 5th wheel car transporters carrying 4 or 5 cars. This impresses the heck out of me when I see that. But, going by this, it seems that in theory, an F350 could tow a 13,000 pound Case 580. Not sure that I'd want to try it... But, I figure since I never see this, there must be a reason. It could be more about the weight and wheelbase of an F350 than it is about its towing capacity. Is this the case? Is there some other reason that I've never seen an F350 or comparable truck pulling a machine like this. Sorry if this is a dumb question; I'm just wondering. Fortunately, my father-in-law is my neighbor, so if I need some work that my little Kubota can't do, I can ask him to just cruise up the street.

 

[xxxsandman]

A 1 ton dually CAN tow a full size backhoe. I've done it with my Cummins powered Dodge dually. It did fine, although I feel it's too heavy and I did not like doing it.

There's 2 problems with towing something as heavy as a full size backhoe (14k give or take 1k) with a dually (1 ton) truck.

Problem 1: If you get the proper trailer rated to haul a 14k load, plus it's own weight , you will likely end up with a 20k GVWR trailer. This trailer will no doubt put you over the majic 26K GCWR (gross combined weight rating) limit that requires you to have a CDL to drive it, EVEN EMPTY!
The solution to problem 1 is have a CDL (comercial drivers license) or a Farm Tag. BTW, the CDL laws varies from state to state. I'm in Oklahoma. Most states seem to follow these guidelines.

Problem 2: You will be exceeding your trucks GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating). Another words your dually 1 ton isn't made to pull a load that heavy. I doubt this will be a problem UNLESS you are in an accident. Then you are likely to be cited for being overloaded, then sued by whoever you hit, injured, or killed. You could also be unlucky and be weighed by a DOT officier. That doesn't happen much around here to 1 ton duallies. Also I'm not sure where the officier would find your GCWR of your truck, since most of them don't have this figure printed on the spec plate. In that case as long as your not over weight on your truck and trailer axles, you will probably be OK.

To sum it up, there's plenty of dually (1 ton) truck pulling backhoes around out there. I see them weekly around here. They are probably doing it illegally, as I don't think there is a Dually (1 ton) that is rated for that weight. They will probably continue to do it as long as they can get away with it. If anyone had an accident while towing such a load with their dually (1 ton), I think they would be sorry they ever decided to do it. I know I'm not going to be moving my brothers full size backhoe anymore with my Dodge 1 ton, it's just not worth it.

 

[EddieWalker]

I don't know the laws, or the details, but here in Texas, it's very common to see a full sized loader backhoe on a trailer that is being towed by a one ton, duelly pickup truck. Somebody in another thread said that was illegal in his state, but here, dealers do it all the time.

My backhoe was delivered by a one ton dodge. My neighbors came in on a one ton Ford.

Not as common, but small dozers are also being towed with one ton pickups around here.

Eddie

 

[Builder]

My case 580 SuperM weighs 17,500 lbs. (see pictures).

I can see a scenario where a entry level 580M 4x2 open ROPS, non-extendahoe could be light enough at 13,350 lbs to be towed behind a dually with a 5th wheel hitch & 18-20K trailer. It would be maxed-out, and in the judgement of most safe-minded drivers an unsafe load since it would exceed the 5th wheel weight of most dually pickups (other than the tow-boss F350/450). 13,350 lbs (lightest Case 580 configuration plus a 4,000 lb (EW) trailer = 17,350 lbs. That's over any normal dually pickup with a 5th wheel as far as I know, except maybe a TowBoss Ford.

Most dually pickups are ~23,000 GCWR. With a 20K trailer, that allows the pickup to weigh 3,000-5,000lbs. Not enough. You would need a bare minimum ao 26K GCWR and if you could find an 18K trailer, that would leave 8K for the truck.

http://www.casece.com/files/tbl_s93PDFRepository/PDF521/762/580M%20Series%20II%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf

But no way a 4x4 with cab, front weights & extendahoe. Much too heavy.

 

[xxxsandman]

I'm also impressed by the dually 1 tons pulling a very long gooseneck car hauler with 4 cars on it. I see a lot of them going done the road. I have noticed when they have 4 cars on them, they are generally smaller type vehicles (compacts). These cars weigh around 3k lbs each. That's 12k lbs total load. I believe the trailers are lighter then your typical trailer of that size, since they are purpose built (no center section, trush style frames, etc). This probably keeps the empty trailer weight around 3k or so, i would guess. So with a total trailer load of 15k or less, that is reasonable, but near max for most trucks.

I also noticed that most if not all of these rigs I see have DOT numbers on the truck and I would guess a CDL driver.

Most 4 car long trailers I see, usually have triple 5,200 lb axles, which would agree with my assumption that they weigh about 15k fully loaded.

One thing is for sure, they are not loaded as heavy as a truck pulling a full size backhoe on a 20k dual tadem gooseneck trailer!

 

[NFA Fun]

Hmmmm, strange that this thread came up.

Was coming home the other day from my cabin and got stuck behind some moron pulling a 580 on a rinky dink trailer that was rated for around 6k. He was pulling it with a 1500 Dodge! Scary as all ****!!!!!! Could not get phone reception to call DPS, (State Police) and of course they are never around when you want one.

 

[john_bud]

Rayco,

DOT enforcement of the federal requirements to have a USDOT number on a commercial vehicle weighing 10,001 or more is getting very common. That's a big ticket. He would be over loaded - even bigger ticket. They would force him to drop the load and have it removed by a proper truck - that's pretty spendy too - especially on short notice.

This DOT number requirement just hit my personal radar screen, but it seems to be all too real. Been talking to folks around here and a few have been pinched.

jb

 

[RayCo]

Thanks for the feedback, all.

NFA Fun: A 1/2 ton pulling a 580?

 

[jfh0jfh]

My case 580 SuperM weighs 17,500 lbs. (see pictures).

I can see a scenario where a entry level 580M 4x2 open ROPS, non-extendahoe could be light enough at 13,350 lbs to be towed behind a dually with a 5th wheel hitch & 18-20K trailer. It would be maxed-out, and in the judgement of most safe-minded drivers an unsafe load since it would exceed the 5th wheel weight of most dually pickups (other than the tow-boss F350/450). 13,350 lbs (lightest Case 580 configuration plus a 4,000 lb (EW) trailer = 17,350 lbs. That's over any normal dually pickup with a 5th wheel as far as I know, except maybe a TowBoss Ford.

Most dually pickups are ~23,000 GCWR. With a 20K trailer, that allows the pickup to weigh 3,000-5,000lbs. Not enough. You would need a bare minimum ao 26K GCWR and if you could find an 18K trailer, that would leave 8K for the truck.

http://www.casece.com/files/tbl_s93PDFRepository/PDF521/762/580M%20Series%20II%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf

But no way a 4x4 with cab, front weights & extendahoe. Much too heavy.

Dodge says that their single-wheel 1-ton diesel is 26000 GCWR. A 4D version weighs ~ 7300 lbs. If gooseneck is 4000 (your #), you should be able to haul a 15K machne.

I thought dualies were nearer 30,000 GCWR. But you may be right. Edmunds lists the 08 Dually Dodge at 15500 max towing.

I just hauled ~18000 (13000+ machine plus 5000+ 24K GVW gooseneck tandem (guess on the trailer weight) behind a 1-ton dually. Brakes were weak on the trailer and it was too much going down steep hills.

 

[Builder]

Dodge says that their single-wheel 1-ton diesel is 26000 GCWR. A 4D version weighs ~ 7300 lbs. If gooseneck is 4000 (your #), you should be able to haul a 15K machne.

I thought dualies were nearer 30,000 GCWR. But you may be right. Edmunds lists the 08 Dually Dodge at 15500 max towing.

I just hauled ~18000 (13000+ machine plus 5000+ 24K GVW gooseneck tandem (guess on the trailer weight) behind a 1-ton dually. Brakes were weak on the trailer and it was too much going down steep hills.

Are you sure? I find that hard to believe-a SRW pickup with a GCWR of 26K?!? Sounds way too high. My '07 SRW one-ton GMC is like 22,500 GCWR.

HERE, Dodge lists their '08 one-ton dually at 24,000 MAX GCWR. Dodge - 2007 Ram 3500 - Capability - Towing Payload

The only 26K GCWR pickup I've ever seen are the Ford Tow-Boss 350/450. I don't know about Dodge, but I'd be surprised to see if they make any pickup rated to 26K.

None of it matters if the tongue weight or trailer weight is exceeded beyond the manufacturer's limitations.

Remember you'll also need a class A CDL if truck & trailer exceed 26,001 lbs.

 

[jfh0jfh]

Are you sure? I find that hard to believe-a SRW pickup with a GCWR of 26K?!? Sounds way too high. My '07 SRW one-ton GMC is like 22,500 GCWR.

HERE, Dodge lists their '08 one-ton dually at 24,000 MAX GCWR. Dodge - 2007 Ram 3500 - Capability - Towing Payload

The only 26K GCWR pickup I've ever seen are the Ford Tow-Boss 350/450. I don't know about Dodge, but I'd be surprised to see if they make any pickup rated to 26K.

None of it matters if the tongue weight or trailer weight is exceeded beyond the manufacturer's limitations.

Remember you'll also need a class A CDL if truck & trailer exceed 26,001 lbs.

I'll try to find a link but I did more reading and I agree that it sounds really high.

Yes, I learned in another thread about needing a CDL for >26000. That they look at potential, not actual load. That was news to me.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

I've towed Cat backhoes with a one ton and I've towed Cat and Case backhoes with my 2003 C5500. The eight pound hundred gorilla hasn't changed. But with the one ton he's in the cab and with the 5500 he's in the trunk.

Where it's important is in an emergency situation. If that school bus driver doesn't see you and pulls out............

 

[Builder]

I've towed Cat backhoes with a one ton and I've towed Cat and Case backhoes with my 2003 C5500. The eight pound hundred gorilla hasn't changed. But with the one ton he's in the cab and with the 5500 he's in the trunk.

Where it's important is in an emergency situation. If that school bus driver doesn't see you and pulls out............

Well put.

Too many guys worry "will my engine be powerful enough to pull it" when towing something heavy.

What they should be saying is "will I be able to make an emergency stop" when towing something heavy.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Here in NC CDL's are required if the trailer is over 10,000#. I don't know what kind of rear axle weight a rig like that would put on a truck. My F350 dually is rated at 8,250# at the rear axle. I think that the newer ones are are rated at 9,000#.

To be legal here in NC, to pull that kind of load with a dually, you would need to have CDL's, be under all your axle ratings for the truck, and buy enough tag weight for the truck. To be legal, you could do it if you stayed within those guidelines. Now, would I do it. No way!!!

That heavy of a load really needs a 450 or 550. The Ford F350 Tow Boss has a CGVWR of 26K and the 450 has a CGVWR of 29K with 4.30 gears and 33K with 4.88 gears.

 

[EddieWalker]

I saw two of them yesterday, and I was only in town for half an hour. I was following what looked like a brand new one ton dodge duelly, who was pulling a 4wd 555C. He really took off from the stop lights and impressed me with the power his truck must have. But when we hit a small incline, he droped from 60mph to 50 fairly quickly. I can't imagine what happens when he hits a real hill. Of course, we don't have any mountains in East Texas. The other was a Ford F350 pulling a 4wd Cat 416 going in the oposite direction.

After reading this thread, I looked on the sides of both trucks for some sort of DOT numbers. There were none that I could see. If you have a CDL, don't you have to put DOT numbers on your vehicle?

Eddie

 

[john_bud]

Eddie, that's a good question and it seems to change state to state. Federal law requires USDOT numbers for any state to state commerce when the truck + trailer is 10,001 or more. About 1/2 of the states have adopted that as the standard for in state only commerce too. Every state requires USDOT numbers for truck + trailer over 26,000#, which is also the CDL trigger.

With that load, there is no way they were legally pulling if there was no number on the sides. Then again, who said all contractors are always legal? Now if that was a farmer, there may be an exclusion allowing them to ggo up to a high number W/O numbers.

But, I am not a DOT officer, just a guy that has been checking it out so I can avoid unpleasant discussions on the side of the road!

jb

 

[Builder]

I have had a CDL for many years and own/operate an over CDL dumptruck. I don't have a DOT number.

I might need one, but I've never been told when I get pulled over that I need one.

I think what all of us need to focus on is a DOT number is only needed if you are a for hire transporter. At least that's the way I see it.

 

[RayCo]

Thumbing through a magazine today, and I saw an ad for F-series Fords. It featured a truck towing a backhoe that was slightly smaller than a Case 580 with a 4 post ROPS, no cab. The fine print in the ad specified that advertised capacity is a minimum of an F450.

 

[xxxsandman]

If I'm not mistaken, if you do operate a truck that requires a CDL and/or is registered as a Commercial Vehicle, you must either have DOT numbers OR "NOT FOR HIRE" printed on the truck.

If your truck has a farm tag, you do NOT need a CDL or DOT#s no matter what the weight. There is some restrictions on what you can haul (machinery or ag products, etc), how far you are from your farm, and it must be driven by the farmer or employee of the farmer. I posted all this in a recent thread, after calling the Oklahoma CDL office and asking them to clearify all this for me.