Towing Capacity?

[rd_macgregor]

I was watching comparisons of the characteristics of the 2.7 Ecoboost and 3.0 EcoDiesel on TFLTruck and noted that the Ecoboost not only went 0-60 in about half the time of the Ecodiesel, they also had to be careful not to speed up the Ike Gauntlet in the EcoBoost, but, floorboarded, had a struggle keeping the Ecodiesel in the 50-55 mph range. The Ike Gauntlet for both trucks was towing a 7200# trailer with an Ecoboost rated at 7600# towing and an Ecodiesel rated at 9200# (?) towing, but (except for fuel efficiency) the Ecoboost far outperformed the Ecodiesel. If this is the case, what factors makes the Ecoboost tow rating about 1500# less than the Ecodiesel?
My wife just bought an Ecodiesel quad cab 4X4, but I'm still curious.

Bob

 

[KennyG]

Tow rating is a combination of engine, transmission, axle, wheelbase and what the manufacturer thinks is appropriate for the package. I checked the Ford website and found the 2.7 can be rated at 8600 with the right axle and wheelbase. The slight difference in capacity is probably because Dodge is more comfortable with consistently loading and lugging the diesel than Ford is with the same duty cycle on a turbo gas engine. I know my Dodge Dakota with a 6 cylinder is rated to tow 1000 lbs less than a V-8 in spite of having exactly the same frame and axle (and I think, transmission).

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have not towed with a 2.7 Eco Boost, have driven it, but own a 3.5 Eco Boost with 3.73 gears and tow with it weekly. Our company bought 3 Ram Eco Diesels and there is just no comparison. I bet my EB could put 10 lengths on the a Eco Diesel towing that 7,200# test load.

Then will be the first really capable 1/2 ton diesel.

Just remember, it takes torque to get a load rolling but HP to help it moving. The Eco Diesel lacks HP

Chris

 

[dodge man]

As a rule, a diesel engine will make less horsepower than a gas engine, all things being equal. Fords Eco Boost engines are cranked up pretty good and make a lot of power for their size. Thats why almost all diesels used on trucks have a turbo now, without the turbo, they would be a real dog. Tow ratings are not based on power alone, but axles, springs, brakes, frame strength, transmission strength and gearing and other factors. The advantage of the diesel is they tend to use less fuel than a gas engine and the harder you work them the more the gap widens compared to a gas engine. Real world results seem to show the Eco Diesel will haul down almost 30 mpg in real world driving on the highway.

 

[Baby Grand]

Is the service life between overhauls for each one the same?

 

[Diamondpilot]

As a rule, a diesel engine will make less horsepower than a gas engine, all things being equal. Fords Eco Boost engines are cranked up pretty good and make a lot of power for their size. Thats why almost all diesels used on trucks have a turbo now, without the turbo, they would be a real dog. Tow ratings are not based on power alone, but axles, springs, brakes, frame strength, transmission strength and gearing and other factors. The advantage of the diesel is they tend to use less fuel than a gas engine and the harder you work them the more the gap widens compared to a gas engine. Real world results seem to show the Eco Diesel will haul down almost 30 mpg in real world driving on the highway.

Diesels could make the power without a turbo. The real advantage of a turbo is to use a smaller displacement to not only save weight and space but to also maintain HP. HP stated by SAE standards are at 59 deg and Sea Level. Every thousand feet you go up you loose 3% of the power it product SL. So in Denver at 6000' a 300 HP truck motor is only producing 246 HP. As temps go up the same thing happens. A turbo can "normalize" the engine to bring back SL performance up to a point.

The 30 mpg thing is true. I drove one and after a week I nearly forgot to fuel it. It just keep going and going. I got 28 plus without trying.


Chris

 

[dodge man]

Yes diesels can make power without a turbo but not much. My Cummins is rated at 305 hp and 555 ft-lbs, I bet without a turbo it would be 150 hp. The early Cummins were all rated at less than 200 hp and that was with a turbo. Diesels can also take a lot of boost, 30 psi or more is not uncommon, anything over 10 psi in a gas engine is a lot.

 

[rd_macgregor]

I appreciate the replies, but I'm not sure it really answers my questions. Does each manufacturer decide what the ratings are, or are there standards against which the manufacturers measure their vehicles to assign the ratings? From the comparison tests I've seen, it seems like the 2.7 Ecoboost could easily match the hauling performance of the Ecodiesel, while surpassing it in speed/acceleration (even while towing). I'm presuming that the F150 Ecoboost is the same truck as the other manifestations of an F150, except for the drivetrain, so the engine and gearing should be the major determinants of the tow rating.
Except for the novelty value of a 1/2-ton diesel and the (admittedly fantastic) fuel efficiency, I don't see what else the Ecodiesel has going for it.

Bob

 

[RedNeckRacin]

SAE J2807 is the towing specs that all domestic manufactures should be adhering too. I think ford is not complying with their HD trucks but I'm not sure about the half tons.

 

[TheGoose]

How fast a truck gets up to speed with a load has almost nothing to do with how much it can tow. For example, 18 wheelers on the road are very "slow" but are rated to tow ?80,000 lbs. It's all about the truck being able to handle a load once it's moving, not how fast it gets it moving.

I was watching comparisons of the characteristics of the 2.7 Ecoboost and 3.0 EcoDiesel on TFLTruck and noted that the Ecoboost not only went 0-60 in about half the time of the Ecodiesel, they also had to be careful not to speed up the Ike Gauntlet in the EcoBoost, but, floorboarded, had a struggle keeping the Ecodiesel in the 50-55 mph range. The Ike Gauntlet for both trucks was towing a 7200# trailer with an Ecoboost rated at 7600# towing and an Ecodiesel rated at 9200# (?) towing, but (except for fuel efficiency) the Ecoboost far outperformed the Ecodiesel. If this is the case, what factors makes the Ecoboost tow rating about 1500# less than the Ecodiesel?
My wife just bought an Ecodiesel quad cab 4X4, but I'm still curious.

Bob

 

[wolfpack2]

The biggest limiting factor for towing capacity is cooling. The modern turbo gas engine like the 2.7L EcoBoost produces a lot of heat. Being able to get rid of the excess heat and keep everything (engine, transmissions, rear axle) within the temperature limits is what determines the max trailer. Sure you can get a much heavier load moving at highway speed, but what happens when you pull a big grades in the heat of the summer. Will you make it to the top before you cook something? Each manufacturer determines the temp limits for their hardware and how much warranty cost they are willing to pay. Based on the durability testing and using the SAE J2807 requirements, they then rate the truck as high as they can and keep the bean counters happy.

 

[dodge man]

Your right about the Eco Diesel, it not a great tow vehicle when you look at what all is available. That's the beauty of it, they make trucks with the Cummins that will tow so much more.

 

[wmonroe]

How fast a truck gets up to speed with a load has almost nothing to do with how much it can tow. For example, 18 wheelers on the road are very "slow" but are rated to tow ?80,000 lbs. It's all about the truck being able to handle a load once it's moving, not how fast it gets it moving.

Very true. Most towing tests on the Internet and quite a few people are worried about their 0-60 times with a trailer, but driving through severe cross winds or having to make a panic stop when coming down a grade will make you think of more than how fast you can speed the trailer up. I've had to make two panic stops, one for a deer and one where someone pulled out in front of me. Both times I was glad to have a little extra truck in front of the trailer.

 

[4570Man]

Very true. Most towing tests on the Internet and quite a few people are worried about their 0-60 times with a trailer, but driving through severe cross winds or having to make a panic stop when coming down a grade will make you think of more than how fast you can speed the trailer up. I've had to make two panic stops, one for a deer and one where someone pulled out in front of me. Both times I was glad to have a little extra truck in front of the trailer.

Totally agree with a little extra truck. You shouldn't rely on trailer brakes, they can fail.

 

[Traxxx]

The tow rating has little to do with how fast you can get up to speed with a load but on survivability (heat dissipation ) and being able to stop with the load.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Totally agree with a little extra truck. You shouldn't rely on trailer brakes, they can fail.

X2 about extra truck. The 4700 international tows like a dream compared to my 1 ton pickup.

 

[mikesee]

Here are some things I consider now that I have learned through experience regarding tow rating and as everyone says it is not getting up to speed but all about stopping and remaing stopped. For example how much weight can the parking brake system maintain while you are loading a trailer on an incline? What happens when while loading the tongue pressure is reversed and the rear wheels of the tow vehicle come off the ground? How much weight will the transmission spline hold while the tow vehicle is in 'Park' and you are loading a trailer?

 

[Copperhead]

I would contend, that it is not a smart idea to rely on the "park" feature of the transmission to hold the vehicle while loading a trailer. It is much better to set the parking brake and use wheel chocks. Semi trucks don't hold the load by shutting the motor off, putting it into gear, letting out the clutch and expecting the drive train to hold things. They set the tractor and trailer brakes while loading, and usually also put wheel chocks in place. And if you are loading stuff that is going to lift wheels off the ground, then you should be using chocks on all wheels, especially the trailer. We would hate to see you in the next volume of Darwin Awards.

I am not sure that torque and hp ratings and the ability of the tow vehicle have anything to do with how well it can hold the vehicle in "park". The park feature of a vehicle is just a pin lock. One can have a very good drivetrain, and snap a park pin under strain. Just the concept of using the drivetrain as a a function of loading or unloading just flies in the face of my experience of over 5 million documented miles and several decades as a commercial driver.

 

[gladehound]

One thing that tow ratings cannot account for is how you drive and how often you tow. If you tow often, race up every hill, try to beat cars off the line at the stop lights, you'll tear up a vehicle with marinal rating for your load faster than you'd like. On the flip side, if you tow infrequently, take it easy, leave lots of space and baby it on starts you can get away with a lot less tow rating and it is acceptaply safe if properly set up (brakes / balance. It's nice to have a big tow vehicle. But there are others set ups that work.

 

[sdef]

Very true. Most towing tests on the Internet and quite a few people are worried about their 0-60 times with a trailer, but driving through severe cross winds or having to make a panic stop when coming down a grade will make you think of more than how fast you can speed the trailer up. I've had to make two panic stops, one for a deer and one where someone pulled out in front of me. Both times I was glad to have a little extra truck in front of the trailer.

My thought also when I finally decided for a 3/4 ton diesel instead of a HD gas half ton that I would have been towing at the top of its rated capacity.