Towing with a Tundra - FYI

Jay4200 · Dec 21, 2005

Before I brought my L4200 home, I was really worried about towing it. I never towed a heavy trailer before, so I was asking all kind of questions about towing and trailer brakes, etc, in places like here and RV forums. Most in the RV forums were fairly paranoid, suggesting not going beyond 80-90% tow rating, and using weight distributing hitches for anything over 50% rating. Add to that the seller telling me that towing the tractor with his 1/2 ton Dodge was scary (but then, it IS a Dodge). Silly me for worrying - after all, I have a Toyota /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Incidentally, adding margin to tow rating is rediculous IMHO - as an engineer, I can tell you that EVERYTHING is specified with considerable margin already, and something that could have significant litigous ramifications will have HUGE margins built in - you can trust me on that one.

OTOH, a friend of mine that has a Tundra told me that he towed a heavy dump trailer with two 1-ton pallets of stone recently and (other than taking a little extra time to get up to speed) it was nothing.

My tractor weighs ~3200#, plus 1300# for the backhoe, probably another 500# for the subframe mount, then whatever the FEL weighs, maybe another 1000#? My tandem-axle trailer weighs 2000#. I figured I was looking at somewhere around 8000#, which is a solid 1000# over the rated tow capacity for my truck. I use the factory hitch, with a standard ball - no weight distribution equipment.

I calibrated tounge weight by sitting a couple of my co-workers on my tailgate and measured the drop at the hitch. Two guys weighed in at 400-450 pounds or so, which resulted in a 3" drop at the hitch. When I loaded the tractor on the trailer, I set it such that the hitch drop was similar, giving me that same 400-450# tounge weight. This is about 5% of total load, which is half what is typically recommended, but it proved more than sufficient.

I won't say that you can't feel 8000 pounds behind the truck, since 0-20MPH times grew from 2-3 seconds to about 10-12 seconds, but other than that, it was virtually effortless. At higher speeds, once the motor could rev up, the truck actually accelerated fairly well, considering it was pulling 3x its normal weight - the Tundra does have an excellent motor. At 50MPH, it was like the trailer wasn't back there at all. The trailer did bounce the truck up and down a little when it hit bumpy areas, but I never got the feeling that the trailer was yanking the truck around at all. I have the off-road suspension package and BFG T/As run at 50psi - which probably helps too. Stopping distances weren't bad (electric trailer brakes work excellent) - I even had a panic brake situation when a minivan pulled out of a Duncan Donuts about 100 feet in front of me when I was doing about 50MPH - the heffer driving evidently couldn't see me or the 22ft long bright orange tractor barrelling down the road, since the cruller that was half stuffed into her mouth evidently obstructed her vision (I'm not making this up). In any case, I slowed the rig down with room to spare, though I did use two feet on the brake pedal /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

In conclusion - towing with a Tundra at 115% of tow capacity is a piece of cake.

Jay

Farmwithjunk · Dec 21, 2005

Before buying the Dodge 2500 I presently own, I had a 2000 Toyota Tundra. I used it on a couple occasions to tow an 18' "car hauler" I had, with a tractor on board. It did the trick but was overloaded with the 6200 lbs of tractor and 2100 lbs of trailer. (7000 lb rated trailer. I was overloaded in anyones book)

As far as that "don't worry about towing capacity, there's a built-in margin of error".... Tell THAT to the judge. There is the #1 reason why you use a heavier than required tow rig. As long as you're under the weight ratings, no worry. Push that limit, and get out the checkbook. What the Judge doesn't take, the transmission shop will.

Dutch445 · Dec 21, 2005

HI Jay,
Thanks for your vote of confidence for your Tundra.

I also have a tundra,, although it's the base cab, 2wd, V-6, model year 2001.

Last fall, I was towing a utility trailer, with a lawn tractor,, and I dropped the tranny right out of it. I had used my truck for work, delivering equipment, and also towing my boat a few times in the summer. The truck had 72k miles when the transmission puked. I believe that all of the tundra's have the same transmission, but you can verify that with Toyota.

I would recommend that if you are going to tow something that heavy, make sure you change the transmission fluid and filter very often! I was told that if I had done that, I probably would have been ok. I must have overdone it, (very hilly around here) and when it let loose, it just broke. I had been having some hard shifts before hand, so I thought something was wrong.

I ended up with a used transmission with 13K miles on it. The shop I do business with said that he tried to get a rebuilt, but the demand has been so low for that transmission, that Jasper's doesn't do them yet. (probably a good thing in a way)

good luck with your truck, and keep on top of your service
intervals!

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Jay4200 · Dec 21, 2005

( Thanks for your vote of confidence for your Tundra)

JFTR, I'm not recommending that someone go into the landscaping business and pull around 8000 pounds every day with a 1/2 ton truck - I was primarily just getting the thing home. My point is simply that my truck towed an overrated load well - it handled good, remained the boss of the two pieces 100% of the time, and stopped well. It did the job suprisingly and significantly better (based on other's reports) than some American-branded 1/2 tons, which I wouldn't have expected.

Good truck but fairly crappy gas milage. Toyota DOES use thin metal too, as I discovered recently. My wife hit my truck with hers (Chevy Tahoe) last weekend. Go ahead and laugh - I did. Her truck hit mine with an open door (Tahoe slid on ice in the driveway) - total Tahoe damage was the door got its botton corner bent up - about a 3/4" tweak. Somehow, however, that 3/4" piece managed to cave in the entire rear fender of my truck from the brake light to the back of the cab. Merry Christmas...

Jay

AntrimMan · Dec 21, 2005

I have been tempted, as you were, to resort to knowingly towing an oversize rig. Two things stopped me.
1) I was told it was a buck a pound for overweight and you cannot drive it home from the place you get stopped.
2) I'm afraid my insurance company would dis-own me just when I need them most, know what I mean?
I just hire the fellow up the road to haul me with his flatbed.
Better safe than sorry.
I an no angel, but I don't publish my variances either /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

All the Best,
Martin

Dargo · Dec 21, 2005

( I'm not recommending that someone...pull around 8000 pounds every day with a 1/2 ton truck )

Bummer. The Tundra is made right out the road from where I live. I'd love to have one, but have been concerned about how it would handle my 12,000 pound trailer. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif The inside secret word is that they will come out with a 1 ton version powered by a Toyota diesel in the next few years. I suppose I can wait until then. I have a feeling that I'd have warranty issues towing a 12k trailer with the current Tundra; even if it has the towing package. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

RedRocker · Dec 21, 2005

You can never have too much truck, there are all kinds of situations where you can have too little. I wouldn't consider a half ton truck of any brand for pulling any kind of weight. IMHO /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

milkman · Dec 21, 2005

And people try to tell me that I overload my BX 2200! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

crewcut · Dec 21, 2005

Jay
I pull my 4630 with loader including trailer around
7200 lbs with a 2002 ext cab 4x4 tundra. The trailer is a 20ft
goose neck. I never use overdrive, On a level highway
I run 59 to 60 mph at 26 to 2700 roms.I do this three times
a year to a hunting club in GA. 225 miles one way. No
problems so far.

crewcut

JustGary · Dec 21, 2005

"I can tell you that EVERYTHING is specified with considerable margin already, and something that could have significant litigous ramifications will have HUGE margins built in - you can trust me on that one." 

Except that SCUBA dive tables have zero margin. Some things you don't want to push.

I'm glad that you got home safely.

- Just Gary

Scrounger · Dec 21, 2005

Its hard to get it in writing but all hitch material and towing equipment has to be tested to three X the rated limit. We decided to see just how much we could over do this one. A class II hitch was 'attached' to a F350. We had 15,000# on the trailer and over 1200# on the tongue before it broke. All very impressive, make you feel good about the equipment that yuu have.

BUT BUT BUT, if you tow over the rating of the truck/trailer you are SCREWED BIG TIME if you get caught. We had a NY State Trooper figure the fine for us had we been pulled over pulling what we had set up and it was over $10,000 with court costs added.

We have a 7000# trailer that we wont put over 5000# on for just that reason.

Its better to eb safe than sorry.

RalphVa · Dec 22, 2005

I rented a trailer to bring my Gravely and attachments home on. That trailer was probably made to accommodate a 3000# tractor. It was a heavy beast. The Gravely and attachments were probably less than 1500# total.

Hitched to the ball on my Tacoma bumper. Pulled it fine, but I could certainly tell it was back there. My Tacoma is a stick with 140 hp 4 cylinder. Normally gets 26-27 mpg but will do 30 mpg at 85 mpg over 3 tankfuls from Louisiana to Virginia.

Once pulled a double wheel trailer from Oklahoma to California with a 1957 Olds with a V8. Couldn't really tell it was back there until you went to stop. Didn't stop very short. This is true of most trailers unless you put trailer brakes on them.

Ralph

RayH · Dec 22, 2005

IM all for safety but I also believe that safety has less to do with WHAT youre trying to accomplish and more to do with HOW you accomplish it. In other words, "unsafe" acts can be safely accomplished.
I see towing capacity as a guideline, mostly a legal guideline more than a mechanical guideline. Example: A Cherokee with a manual transmission or a four cyl. has a tow capacity of only 2000lbs and a Cherokee with a 4.0 and auto has a capacity of 5000lbs. Is it that much "safer" to tow with an auto than a manual, NO. It has nothing what so ever to do with safety. Its a number that the manufacturer came up with to take responsibilty away from them for whatever reason.

On another point. There are quite a few people on this board that tow, probably more than the average public. How many of you have actually been stopped, ticketed or had any other legal issues while towing with there personal vehicle? I'll go out on a limb and say "0". Youve got to really be doing something stupid for the law to mess with you for towing unsafely. As long as your truck, trailer and equipment are in servicable condition, no ones going to bother with you. Does anyone actually believe that officers know or care what the tow capacity of your particular vehicle is? Has anyone ever had or heard of this coming up in court? Probably not.

Farmwithjunk · Dec 22, 2005

( IM all for safety but I also believe that safety has less to do with WHAT youre trying to accomplish and more to do with HOW you accomplish it. In other words, "unsafe" acts can be safely accomplished.
I see towing capacity as a guideline, mostly a legal guideline more than a mechanical guideline. Example: A Cherokee with a manual transmission or a four cyl. has a tow capacity of only 2000lbs and a Cherokee with a 4.0 and auto has a capacity of 5000lbs. Is it that much "safer" to tow with an auto than a manual, NO. It has nothing what so ever to do with safety. Its a number that the manufacturer came up with to take responsibilty away from them for whatever reason.

On another point. There are quite a few people on this board that tow, probably more than the average public. How many of you have actually been stopped, ticketed or had any other legal issues while towing with there personal vehicle? I'll go out on a limb and say "0". Youve got to really be doing something stupid for the law to mess with you for towing unsafely. As long as your truck, trailer and equipment are in servicable condition, no ones going to bother with you. Does anyone actually believe that officers know or care what the tow capacity of your particular vehicle is? Has anyone ever had or heard of this coming up in court? Probably not. )

Well, it isn't "0", I can tell you. I've been stopped on numerous occasions. I frequently drive through an intersection of two major interstates. The Kentucky Commercial Motor Vehicle Enforcement Officers "hang out" there. They can ,and do pull over commercial as well as NON commercial vehicles at random. I've been inspected probably 10 times over the past few years. On two occasions, I was found in violation of state laws. (Over legal width by 3/4". No VISABLE DOT #. No on-board fire extinguisher.) (I'm considered commercial----Farm)

There's saftey as you or I CONSIDER it safe, There's safe as the LAW requires us to be safe, and there's safe as we inter-act with other (sometimes UNsafe) drivers on the road.

It HELPS considerably to be a safe driver/operator. It's another thing entirely to meet the scrutiny of a DOT inspection.

It's BEST to meet (or exceed) ALL those "requirements". Life's a lot less complicated when you do.

daTeacha · Dec 22, 2005

I have a Dakota. I used it to haul a big load of green lumber from the Amish mill about 3 miles away to my place on my trailer. I knew it was overloaded, but didn't want to do two trips. When I got here, I had to use the Kubota to drag it up the hill, with two people in the bucket to keep the front end down, creeper gear, and walking from side to side with the brakes as one or the other rear lost grip. The truck towed and stopped the load, but I was slow and short distance. The only uphill part was ugly since the load tended to slide off the back despite being tied down. The downhill was done very slowly.

How heavy was it? No idea. But the tongue weight was enough to bend the reinforced bumper hitch on the truck and the thing was still a little too tail heavy.

A truck will haul a lot, just don't do it very often.

tjkadar · Dec 22, 2005

We've been pulled more then once while hauling pretty big loads of square bales. Both times, we were required to drive up on portable scales and both times we were well within our weight limits. Whenever we get a new trailer, we'll load them up and take them to the scales so that we know what we're moving. Beat guessing and only costs $8.00.

I've seen two 1/2 ton trucks that were taken for a ride by their trailers while hauling a 28 ~35 hp tractor. One ended up upside down in a ditch. The other wound up smashing into two parked vehicles. Neither was traveling very fast when it all went wrong in a very quick and final manner.

Towing a heavy load with a Tundra can be done. But it had better be a short, slow, and infrequent trip. Myself, I would not be comfortable hauling that much poundage with such a small truck. YMMV

RayH · Dec 22, 2005

[quote (Over legal width by 3/4". No VISABLE DOT #. No on-board fire extinguisher.) (I'm considered commercial----Farm)

)

The key there is that you are considered commercial. Im talking private vehicles.

RayH · Dec 22, 2005

I stand by what Ive said, If youve got a private or personal vehicle and your load is tied down safely and you are towing it safely, the officials dont care if its 1000lbs over weight.
Ive never seen a bunch of doomsdayers like on this site. I hope I dont get pulled over by the owners manual police or maybe they will check inside the door of my Cherokee and add up the axle ratings or do they have a list of every vehicle and its tow capacity.
Note that Im not advocating anyone overloading their private vehicle, Im just simply saying that no one cares. No one is out there looking for someone towing 7000lbs with their 1/2 pickup and they dont care what kind of transmission or engine it has.

gobbler · Dec 22, 2005

(
Incidentally, adding margin to tow rating is rediculous IMHO - as an engineer, I can tell you that EVERYTHING is specified with considerable margin already, and something that could have significant litigous ramifications will have HUGE margins built in - you can trust me on that one. )

Is it just me, or is this the typical engineer response. I bet I've read this a hundred times on this forum when topics such as this come up.

Now, here's a business school, MBA grad response .... WHY TAKE THE CHANCE. It only takes one incident and you'll be facing a stack of legal papers 10' tall.

I'm also one of those paranoid RV's that you spoke about. Why do you think we are paranoid? Could it be that in a typical year I tow about 8-10K miles. Could it be that I've been in towing situations that the normal short haul tower like yourself will never see or experience. When carrying my 5th wheel, I've got about 12K pound behind me and my family with with as well as respect for the rest of the motoring public.

You owe it to yourself and others to operate a tow vehicle as safely as possible, and you're not by knowingly exceeding your limits.

TheKid · Dec 22, 2005

( The key there is that you are considered commercial. Im talking private vehicles )

Depending on what state your in, your private truck may be a commercial vehicle. Under Missouri law every pickup is a commerial vehicle.