Highbeam
Super Member
That's a heck of a first post there. Welcome.
Towing with a Tundra - FYI
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ksmmoto
Gold Member
Just went out and checked and the GCWR of 12,500 and GVWR 6500 lbs is NOT on the door sticker. I thought it was myself till I did this post. Only the axle ratings are there.
ksmmoto
ksmmoto
Bird
Rest in Peace
I stay out of most (not all /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) the debates about these laws for a couple of reasons: (1) some laws are different in different states, and (2) I've been retired for nearly 17 years and haven't kept up with all the changes in law in my own state, but during my years in law enforcement, I'd say you're exactly right.
Dargo
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'd say you're exactly right. )</font>
Oh, I see several inaccuracies that I don't think he would want to argue in court. Granted, I doubt anyone is trying to offer free legal advice and, I'm sure that he certainly is not trying to mislead anyone. However, a few of the unconditional statements simply are not true. Not that it matters and, it would make for a very long post to cover all angles. I'll just sit by the side and see if he notices some of them. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Oh, I see several inaccuracies that I don't think he would want to argue in court. Granted, I doubt anyone is trying to offer free legal advice and, I'm sure that he certainly is not trying to mislead anyone. However, a few of the unconditional statements simply are not true. Not that it matters and, it would make for a very long post to cover all angles. I'll just sit by the side and see if he notices some of them. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Highbeam
Super Member
What are you saying Dargo? The grade of binder chain should make a difference? Sorry, couldn't help it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
_RaT_
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I hope that this kind of common sense is in fact how the courts see things. Thanks for the excellent post. RaT...
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
In 1997, I was ticketed for being 1100lbs over-weight while traveling a Kentucky interstate highway. I was hauling a tractor on a trailer behind a 1-ton truck. The truck was well under it's tagged weight (which also includes weight scaled on trailer) I was safely under my tagged weight rating. The trailer was rated at 10,000 (Manufacturers rating) It scaled 11,100 (and change) (Truck was running 22,000lb tags)
I recieved a citation, was forced to re-position the load so as to comply with ratings on truck and trailer. (All took place at scales) I didn't challenge the citation, because, quite simply, I was in the wrong. There was no need to take anything to court. I merely paid the fine and went on, a bit wiser, and a bit poorer.
I was told at the time, that Kentucky Vehicle Enforcement Officers were looking for this particular violation, on this particular date. I drove right into a trap....
I was as nice as possible, no way the Officers were "ticked off" at me. They were just doing their jobs. I wasn't mad. (Other than at myself) They weren't mad.
Once again, I stick behind what I said earlier. Be 110% completely legal, be safe, and you don't have to worry about "what you can get away with".
I recieved a citation, was forced to re-position the load so as to comply with ratings on truck and trailer. (All took place at scales) I didn't challenge the citation, because, quite simply, I was in the wrong. There was no need to take anything to court. I merely paid the fine and went on, a bit wiser, and a bit poorer.
I was told at the time, that Kentucky Vehicle Enforcement Officers were looking for this particular violation, on this particular date. I drove right into a trap....
I was as nice as possible, no way the Officers were "ticked off" at me. They were just doing their jobs. I wasn't mad. (Other than at myself) They weren't mad.
Once again, I stick behind what I said earlier. Be 110% completely legal, be safe, and you don't have to worry about "what you can get away with".
daTeacha
Veteran Member
Another way to get a weight ticket is by having too much weight per axle for the road, regardless of whether or not the vehicle is actually overloaded. In the spring, our chip and seal roads have reduced load limits for a time until the ground thaws enough to let the water drain through. Too much weight tears up the road in a hurry, causing a large repair expense for the good citizens of the county.
Farmdiesel -- welcome aboard! How about reading the thread about "The ROPS Police" (if you have a spare hour or two /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) and tossing in an opinion on some of the liability/warranty issues raised there?
Farmdiesel -- welcome aboard! How about reading the thread about "The ROPS Police" (if you have a spare hour or two /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) and tossing in an opinion on some of the liability/warranty issues raised there?
FarmDiesel
New member
Farmwithjunk,
This may be the first verifiable citation I've heard of--where it happened to YOU, and not "my cousin's best friend's uncle's..."
So I can understand it correctly...you were driving a load that did not exceed any legal axle weights, did not exceed your driver's license rating, and did not exceed your license plates' respective weight ratings, and you received a citation for exceeding the GVWR for the tow vehicle? Did the police look at your GVWR sticker on the door, or how did they determine GVWR? Do you remember what the violation you were charged with was specifically called? (I'm guessing that wouldn't be a normal 'overweight' ticket).
Dargo,
I'm not sure I see any unconditional statements or free legal advice. I simply provided my perspective. Given that none of you are 'clients' and there's no consultation, my statement in a public forum isn't advice. It's just my opinion, based on my experience. If you see a reason to disagree with some/any/all of the statements, or think that I'm wrong, please let me know. I'm actually very curious to hear about verifiable examples where individuals had things occur such as having an insurer successfully attempt to refuse to cover an accident involving an overweight vehicle. Again, that's the purpose of insurance--it is as much to protect the other drivers involved in the accident as it is to protect you. That's why we have mandatory insurance in most states now, and why so many states are requiring mandatory uninsured and underinsured motorist coverage. So when someone does something negligent and an accident occurs, there will be insurance to cover the resulting injuries.
This may be the first verifiable citation I've heard of--where it happened to YOU, and not "my cousin's best friend's uncle's..."
So I can understand it correctly...you were driving a load that did not exceed any legal axle weights, did not exceed your driver's license rating, and did not exceed your license plates' respective weight ratings, and you received a citation for exceeding the GVWR for the tow vehicle? Did the police look at your GVWR sticker on the door, or how did they determine GVWR? Do you remember what the violation you were charged with was specifically called? (I'm guessing that wouldn't be a normal 'overweight' ticket).
Dargo,
I'm not sure I see any unconditional statements or free legal advice. I simply provided my perspective. Given that none of you are 'clients' and there's no consultation, my statement in a public forum isn't advice. It's just my opinion, based on my experience. If you see a reason to disagree with some/any/all of the statements, or think that I'm wrong, please let me know. I'm actually very curious to hear about verifiable examples where individuals had things occur such as having an insurer successfully attempt to refuse to cover an accident involving an overweight vehicle. Again, that's the purpose of insurance--it is as much to protect the other drivers involved in the accident as it is to protect you. That's why we have mandatory insurance in most states now, and why so many states are requiring mandatory uninsured and underinsured motorist coverage. So when someone does something negligent and an accident occurs, there will be insurance to cover the resulting injuries.
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Farmwithjunk,
This may be the first verifiable citation I've heard of--where it happened to YOU, and not "my cousin's best friend's uncle's..."
So I can understand it correctly...you were driving a load that did not exceed any legal axle weights, did not exceed your driver's license rating, and did not exceed your license plates' respective weight ratings, and you received a citation for exceeding the GVWR for the tow vehicle? Did the police look at your GVWR sticker on the door, or how did they determine GVWR? Do you remember what the violation you were charged with was specifically called? (I'm guessing that wouldn't be a normal 'overweight' ticket). )</font>
Close.... The citation was for exceeding GVWR ON THE TRAILER. They used info on a plate riveted to the hitch of the trailer, that stated the GVWR (of the trailer) was not to exceed 10,000 lbs. As I stated, the trailer scaled at 11,100. I had around 750 lbs tongue weight carried on the truck. With the (gooseneck) hitch, and the trucks GCWR, I could have (and SHOULD have) had something to the tune of 2600 lbs tongue weight. I had to re-load everything so that there was more weight on the trucks axle, and taken OFF the trailer's axles.
I don't recall the exact wording of the citation. I DO remember it costing me a little ovet $900 at the time. There were no other violations found at the time.
As I mentioned, I didn't contest the citation. I was given the option of mailing in the fine, along with a few papers I had to sign. They basically were admission of responsibility forms.
Kentucky is very liberal (usually) with over-loaded trucks. That is due in part to the number of "coal buckets" running the roads here. They get away with being WAY over the legal limits.
This may be the first verifiable citation I've heard of--where it happened to YOU, and not "my cousin's best friend's uncle's..."
So I can understand it correctly...you were driving a load that did not exceed any legal axle weights, did not exceed your driver's license rating, and did not exceed your license plates' respective weight ratings, and you received a citation for exceeding the GVWR for the tow vehicle? Did the police look at your GVWR sticker on the door, or how did they determine GVWR? Do you remember what the violation you were charged with was specifically called? (I'm guessing that wouldn't be a normal 'overweight' ticket). )</font>
Close.... The citation was for exceeding GVWR ON THE TRAILER. They used info on a plate riveted to the hitch of the trailer, that stated the GVWR (of the trailer) was not to exceed 10,000 lbs. As I stated, the trailer scaled at 11,100. I had around 750 lbs tongue weight carried on the truck. With the (gooseneck) hitch, and the trucks GCWR, I could have (and SHOULD have) had something to the tune of 2600 lbs tongue weight. I had to re-load everything so that there was more weight on the trucks axle, and taken OFF the trailer's axles.
I don't recall the exact wording of the citation. I DO remember it costing me a little ovet $900 at the time. There were no other violations found at the time.
As I mentioned, I didn't contest the citation. I was given the option of mailing in the fine, along with a few papers I had to sign. They basically were admission of responsibility forms.
Kentucky is very liberal (usually) with over-loaded trucks. That is due in part to the number of "coal buckets" running the roads here. They get away with being WAY over the legal limits.
5030
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FarmDiesel:
Very interesating reply when, considering the Land of Lincoln still enforces the 73,280 pound weight limit in secondary roads even though it flies in the face of Federal Depatrment of Transportation guidelines. Talk about non-equality. Illinois, besides Michigan (where I reside) has some of the most conflicting weight and length requirements in the United States.
Let's not get into the Federal Bridge Law and how it relates to gross vehicle weight here.
Umgh:
Do you expect anything else? I believe in using the proper tool for the job. I'd never consider pulling my gooseneck with a Tundra or my motorcycle trailer with my 350. Likewise, I'd not consider pulling my 8 axle gravel train with my F350. It's all about sense and cents.
Very interesating reply when, considering the Land of Lincoln still enforces the 73,280 pound weight limit in secondary roads even though it flies in the face of Federal Depatrment of Transportation guidelines. Talk about non-equality. Illinois, besides Michigan (where I reside) has some of the most conflicting weight and length requirements in the United States.
Let's not get into the Federal Bridge Law and how it relates to gross vehicle weight here.
Umgh:
Do you expect anything else? I believe in using the proper tool for the job. I'd never consider pulling my gooseneck with a Tundra or my motorcycle trailer with my 350. Likewise, I'd not consider pulling my 8 axle gravel train with my F350. It's all about sense and cents.
RayH
Banned
FarmDiesel'
Thank you,
I think we are pretty much in agreement. You are much more elequent than I am though.
Thank you,
I think we are pretty much in agreement. You are much more elequent than I am though.
Jagmandave
Veteran Member
Just a few add on comments about the Tundra, I have an 05, V-8 2wd, which replaced an '03 same vehicle.....
Both my Tundra's had the factory hitch and towing package, which includes bigger radiator and trans cooler - which I think is a must if you're going to tow for a long distance or in really hot weather.
Previously I had a 99 Frod F150. I towed a 6k lb Vermeer chipper with both the ford and the 03 Tundra and found a couple of interesting comparisons. The Tundra's engine/trans/gearing hauled the load much easier than the Ford - MUCH easier! But, the Ford felt better, like it was more solid under the load. The Ford had 4wheel discs, the Tundra's have disc/drums, even with the uprated TRD suspension, so the Ford braked the load better.........
The Tundra back end does get a little loosy-goosy when you get close to a 1,000 lbs in the back, the Ford didn't. That said, the Tundra is so much more liveable in everyday driving than the Ford - quieter, smoother, more power, better ride etc. Reliability was not a factor on either brand - I've had no problems with any of them, although the 05 only has 3k miles so far.
Toyota is building a new truck assembly plant in San Antonio, due to open later this year, and at some point they will be building 3/4 and 1 ton trucks there.
I also have a few war stories regarding towing with what may be termed inappropriate vehicles......I towed one of those enclosed U-haul trailers (they look like a mini horse trailer) from Denver to California with a Porsche 914, I remember having to stop at the top of a couple of mtn passes to let it cool down a bit, but it hauled the weight really well.
I also hauled my boat, a 21ft Bayliner cuddy with a 145hp Chrysler outboard with my VW pickup (based on the Rabbit), however, even though it pulled the load just fine, in corners or under braking the boat was driving the truck, not the other way around! I only did this once!
What the heck, if you survive, you learn, you grow!
When you're older and smarter, you learn to do things the right way......... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Both my Tundra's had the factory hitch and towing package, which includes bigger radiator and trans cooler - which I think is a must if you're going to tow for a long distance or in really hot weather.
Previously I had a 99 Frod F150. I towed a 6k lb Vermeer chipper with both the ford and the 03 Tundra and found a couple of interesting comparisons. The Tundra's engine/trans/gearing hauled the load much easier than the Ford - MUCH easier! But, the Ford felt better, like it was more solid under the load. The Ford had 4wheel discs, the Tundra's have disc/drums, even with the uprated TRD suspension, so the Ford braked the load better.........
The Tundra back end does get a little loosy-goosy when you get close to a 1,000 lbs in the back, the Ford didn't. That said, the Tundra is so much more liveable in everyday driving than the Ford - quieter, smoother, more power, better ride etc. Reliability was not a factor on either brand - I've had no problems with any of them, although the 05 only has 3k miles so far.
Toyota is building a new truck assembly plant in San Antonio, due to open later this year, and at some point they will be building 3/4 and 1 ton trucks there.
I also have a few war stories regarding towing with what may be termed inappropriate vehicles......I towed one of those enclosed U-haul trailers (they look like a mini horse trailer) from Denver to California with a Porsche 914, I remember having to stop at the top of a couple of mtn passes to let it cool down a bit, but it hauled the weight really well.
I also hauled my boat, a 21ft Bayliner cuddy with a 145hp Chrysler outboard with my VW pickup (based on the Rabbit), however, even though it pulled the load just fine, in corners or under braking the boat was driving the truck, not the other way around! I only did this once!
What the heck, if you survive, you learn, you grow!
When you're older and smarter, you learn to do things the right way......... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I also have a few war stories regarding towing with what may be termed inappropriate vehicles..... )</font>
Saw a bass boat being towed (in interstate traffic no less) by a Honda Goldwing once. Now there'd be a scene on the boat ramp. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Saw a bass boat being towed (in interstate traffic no less) by a Honda Goldwing once. Now there'd be a scene on the boat ramp. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
zjohnson
Bronze Member
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Well that beats mine! My duck huntin buds and I witinessed 2 ole boys pull up to the boat dock early one morning on their Honda big red towing a duck boat(no lights, goodness knows how many miles on a public road with a 3 wheeler). Guess the Big Red would "tow" a light al duck boat better than a Goldwing would /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif a bass boat at interstate speeds!!!!!!!!!!!
sneaky_pete
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Once, many years ago, I towed a VW Beetle with my Indian Chief. The old flathead pulled it easily, albeit not at interstate speed.
5030
Rest in Peace
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I think I am going to start a thread titled "I towed my M9000 with my Honda CRX"......what you think??
Reminds me of when I was a kid (years and years ago) when I was amazed at the ad of Charles Atlas pulling the Pullman railcar with his body and a rope. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Reminds me of when I was a kid (years and years ago) when I was amazed at the ad of Charles Atlas pulling the Pullman railcar with his body and a rope. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
daTeacha
Veteran Member
Continuing the stupid towing stories, back in days of being 20 something and just out of school, I traded a motorcycle for a ski boat, trailer and 65 hp Evinrude. (I felt safer with the boat after a close encounter with a Mack Truck and a large Buick while on the bike, despite the fact that I can't swim worth a lick.)
I rode the bike to the boat dealer, the wife followed in the Audi S90 wagon with a hitch. The trailer was a tiltbed, but not set up for this boat, apparently. When I hooked everything up and got the boat on the trailer, there was very little tongue weight. The guys at the boat store claimed to not know how to adjust the trailer, and I had never seen one like it before, so I just drove the thing the 40 or so miles home (over flat ground, fortunately) with the middle of the rig sticking up like a camel's hump. They hadn't secured the boat very well, either. When I got home and went out to unload it, the back of the car was sitting about 6 or 8 inches above level. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I think a few more miles would have gotten the rear wheels off the ground, but the thing was perfectly straight and stable when stopping and cornering.
I rode the bike to the boat dealer, the wife followed in the Audi S90 wagon with a hitch. The trailer was a tiltbed, but not set up for this boat, apparently. When I hooked everything up and got the boat on the trailer, there was very little tongue weight. The guys at the boat store claimed to not know how to adjust the trailer, and I had never seen one like it before, so I just drove the thing the 40 or so miles home (over flat ground, fortunately) with the middle of the rig sticking up like a camel's hump. They hadn't secured the boat very well, either. When I got home and went out to unload it, the back of the car was sitting about 6 or 8 inches above level. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I think a few more miles would have gotten the rear wheels off the ground, but the thing was perfectly straight and stable when stopping and cornering.
turbo36
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Reminds me of when I was a kid (years and years ago) when I was amazed at the ad of Charles Atlas pulling the Pullman railcar with his body and a rope. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>
How about Jack Lalanne pulling 70 rowboats? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Reminds me of when I was a kid (years and years ago) when I was amazed at the ad of Charles Atlas pulling the Pullman railcar with his body and a rope. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>
How about Jack Lalanne pulling 70 rowboats? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Egon
Epic Contributor
I can remember when the grain elevator operator had to move railcars by hand when loading! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Egon
Egon
