Toyota Prius

pennwalk · Aug 31, 2005

It seems like we have been having a big party and nobody wants to see it end. The problem is that a lot of the oil that we use is coming from unstable countries that are increasingly hostile to us. Also I have read that some oil people are buying oil futures because they believe that worldwide supply has peaked and prices are going to keep going up as we fight with other countries for supplies. If the hybrids help reduce the amount we have to buy from our enemys that ought to be a good thing and if hybrids help to slow how quickly we use up our supplies maybe there will be some left for our kids.

Chris
let the good times roll !

sneaky_pete · Aug 31, 2005

( It seems like we have been having a big party and nobody wants to see it end. The problem is that a lot of the oil that we use is coming from unstable countries that are increasingly hostile to us.)

Over 60% of the crude oil used in the U.S. is imported.

Our great friend Venezuela sells us 8% of all our needs (total, not just imported). All Persian Gulf countries together sell us 12% of our total used. Another 12% of total need comes from Nigeria, Algeria, Angola, and Russia (you decide whether these fall in the "unstable" or "increasingly hostile" category).

The only good news is that our neighbors Canada and Mexico sell us 17% of our total need, and this number has been going up. Better hope they can continue to for some time. Also, if you live in a southern border state, you wonder just how stable Mexico really is.

( Also I have read that some oil people are buying oil futures because they believe that worldwide supply has peaked and prices are going to keep going up as we fight with other countries for supplies.)

The futures market is a pretty tough game for individuals; if you mis-time your trades or guess wrong in your price predicition, then you'd better have some big storage tanks at your place to take delivery. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif However, we as a nation are already competing with other countries for supplies (notably China and India), that is the demand side of the equation that is partly responsible for higher prices.

( If the hybrids help reduce the amount we have to buy from our enemys that ought to be a good thing and if hybrids help to slow how quickly we use up our supplies maybe there will be some left for our kids.)

A noble sentiment, but not everyone will make an immediate sacrifice from their pocketbook for the greater good. People in democracies get too used to having other taxpayers bail them out of a bad situation, and too used to blaming all their woes on someone else. In my opinion.

AndyM · Aug 31, 2005

However, financially, they just don't make sense currently. As noted, you can buy a whack of gas for the primium in price... The problem is, fundamentally, people don't differentiate between a capital cost (expensive car) and expense (the price of gas)... Until then, I'd consider a VW TDI or just a small car with a manual transmission ... 

Actually, I put together a spreadsheet last year when gasoline was $2.13 a gallon and diesel was $1.67 and I was shopping for a new car. I figured the cost of gasoline I would use per year added with the cost of my car payment per year.

At the time, it didn't make sense to by a hybrid or a VW diesel, but look what happens after I put today's fuel prices into last years spreadsheet. (see attached Excel file)

goodoleboy · Sep 1, 2005

If you get 36mpg in corolla and a prius gets 46 thats a 25% savings in fuel. A pretty big deal in my book.

heehaw · Sep 1, 2005

put the difference in price in the bank at 4% interest and draw about $320 a year to pay the difference in fuel cost: plus dateline or 60 min or one of those shows did a show on the hybrids recently, over 5 years the savings came out to be $89 over a standard car: they said the hybrid cars depreciate a lot faster than the others, plus that 36 mpg was with an odometer that was off by about 9%, so the actual mileage was closer to 40mpg. if you want to make a statement, then the hybrid will do that..i was looking hard at the hybrid, but my purpose is to save money..and i couldn't come up with any way it would do that for me. i need to start breaking these donkeys i have, only one will ride right now. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
heehaw

HGM · Sep 1, 2005

Guys, what you're all saying is correct. For the most part the Hybrid technology is in its infancy. Unless you do ALOT of city driving you wont see the maximum benefit of a hybrid. This is more of a test bed in a semi afordable package. With the exposure from them being available to the public, it will make the transition to alternative packages more attractive in the future. I expect to see a 40mpg diesel with a hybrid drivetrain in the not too distant future. Imagine an SUV with a small 4cyl diesel/electric hybrid that gets 50mpg while performing like a 6 or even a mid 80's v-8. Its no that far off....

boustany · Sep 1, 2005

It is a pretty good deal.

Check out the life/replacement costs of the battery packs /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Spanky100 · Sep 1, 2005

Dave

Befor you purchase consider your type driving and the real fuel economy. Was looking at one at car show and couple next to me said they had same car rate at 60 mpg city and 55 hwy. Man states that he drive hwy long commute at 70 mph and has never seen over mid 40's mpg and was not what he expected. Consider the business case over a less expensive economy car getting 35 mpg might have better business case. If I wanted car with highest real world fuel economy numbers would look at VW Turbo diesel with manual transmission. Seem to get some pretty impressive fuel economy numbers without the hybrid cost.

Drive both and consider.

Waynw

HGM · Sep 2, 2005

Good advice. The hybrid works best in city driving. The thing is, the more power you need, be it higher RPM, A/C,towing,etc. the less likely you will ever run on the electric portion of the drivetrain. Hybrids make sence to the folks that live in moderate climates and do alot of city driving, stop and go is the best. The Ford Escape got 36MPG(if I remember correctly) durring a test in Manhatten last year. This is really quite impressive for a small SUV with 3x the room of a Prius, plus it accellerates like the 6cyl version of the vehicle.Nice little package, though most wouldnt experience the bennefits.

The diesel would be a better choice, though you have higher maintenance cost. Do your homework on the VW, I have heard mixed reviews of quality. The choices will become greater in the next few years

Ken_CT · Sep 2, 2005

Does anyone have any information on how long the batteries last, and what is the cost, parts and labor, to replace them? I would think that the charging system repairs must also be expensive.