Toyota sales off more than GM or Ford

[redneckford]

Great Job Nubota-----we need to look around our own house and make changes before we complain!!!!!!---was a school teacher once myself----life is good!!!

 

[Builder]

My take on this whole issue is fairly simple. It all boils down to the culture and work ethic that has evolved in this country.

We want the companies to sell to us cheap while paying us big bucks, without having to work TOO hard. In a free market, that mentality just doesn't work. Blame the companies, blame the Gov't, blame the unions - they are all influenced by the same factors - the people.

Corporate greed today? Driven by Wall Street which in turn is driven by the average investor. Times were that a good company was determined by solid performance and good dividends providing modest returns- speculation was for the gamblers. Now it is all speculation - get rich quick and whine when we get burnt. Most forget that most of these "greedy, corporate, despots" began in someone's garage with an innovative idea and hard work.

Livable wages? Used to mean bare necessities, maybe buying a house, hoping to send junior to college, and an occasional luxury - now it's about collecting the most toys, have the biggest house, and luxury car. Somewhere people feel that their wages should be equitable with the people around them - regardless of the level of work or skill. Sense of entitlement?

There is indeed corporate greed and bad management - but I would argue that much outsourcing occurs just to control costs to keep companies afloat (look at all of the mergers and failed companies over the years) and/or please Wall Street - impossible when workers demand higher wages than the market will bear. Add to that all the new regulations - wanted by people that drive their SUVs to the forest to hug the trees. Oh, and let's now forget liability for not warning consumers to use common sense.

Broken education system or spoiled/lazy students? I see the honors students get off the bus with a stack of books and hours of homework - others go straight out to play - how do you convince the 10 yr old honor student that they are on the right track when they see the others coast. The schools might not be perfect, but we expect teachers to entice the kids to learn, without any ability to apply discipline. Same in "Little league" - used to be about teaching competition and to work hard, and maybe not make the cut - now everybody gets to play and rewarded the same - can't hurt lil Johnny's feelings...

My gut tells me capitalism is dying in this country - hopefully it's just the typical generation gap thing - but it sure seems different this time.

We can talk conspiracies, greed, lousy Gov't, but IMHO it starts at home, as with most things. I almost hope for an economic "ice age" to level set things, even though it would be very painful. The Big 3 going under would be a sign of such a thing....

Sorry, I swore I was not gonna post to this thread, but just couldn't help it - feel free to throw rocks or flame away.....

With our government spending TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars and not even being able to account for them, all of the over regulation of our government agencies and the paltry average household income of a US citizen (what is it, like $45,000/household?) I would lay most of my blame on our poor economy at our governments feet, not on an underlying "sense of entitlement" by Americans.
I have no sense of entitlement. I was given nothing more than an education by my parents at a cheap state school. Most people I know work their butts off to get where they got, too. Sure, there's the welfare class who have had the welfare system bred into their culture, but Americans have been proven time and again to be one of the hardest working cultures in the world.

 

[Diamondpilot]

With our government spending TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars and not even being able to account for them, all of the over regulation of our government agencies and the paltry average household income of a US citizen (what is it, like $45,000/household?) I would lay most of my blame on our poor economy at our governments feet, not on an underlying "sense of entitlement" by Americans.
I have no sense of entitlement. I was given nothing more than an education by my parents at a cheap state school. Most people I know work their butts off to get where they got, too. Sure, there's the welfare class who have had the welfare system bred into their culture, but Americans have been proven time and again to be one of the hardest working cultures in the world.

Bravo Builder. Very well said. If people would stop crying and just shut up and work this country would be in great shape. There have been times in my life that I had to invent or make my own job. I am sure you are the same way. That is what this country was built on, hard work and ingenuity.

Chris

 

[redneckford]

Bravo Builder. Very well said. If people would stop crying and just shut up and work this country would be in great shape. There have been times in my life that I had to invent or make my own job. I am sure you are the same way. That is what this country was built on, hard work and ingenuity.

Chris

I agree but how do we get people to understand that many of the car regulations are caused by the pollution issue in several big cities-----Why do they keep building more buildings in these areas that cause more cars to travel there and increase pollution thus the regulations for all of us.---I have been traveling to the medical center in Houston Tx every 2 weeks for the last three years-----I think there is more cars than people there and they are building more sky scrapers by the day------could build buildings in Dayton and Sealy and not have to build sky scrapers and not have to have all those car go downtown----I have been to several big Cities and see the same thing there -----our greed to be the biggest city is part of the problem---then there is California and their air problems ----just go see for yourself---it is bad---so some of those folks need to move back to the center US(Like Eddie Walker did)-----we can solve alot of air problems by relocation of jobs and population----I know that is to common sense of an idea to work!!! Government regulation is easier!

 

[Builder]

I agree but how do we get people to understand that many of the car regulations are caused by the pollution issue in several big cities-----Why do they keep building more buildings in these areas that cause more cars to travel there and increase pollution thus the regulations for all of us.---I have been traveling to the medical center in Houston Tx every 2 weeks for the last three years-----I think there is more cars than people there and they are building more sky scrapers by the day------could build buildings in Dayton and Sealy and not have to build sky scrapers and not have to have all those car go downtown----I have been to several big Cities and see the same thing there -----our greed to be the biggest city is part of the problem---then there is California and their air problems ----just go see for yourself---it is bad---so some of those folks need to move back to the center US(Like Eddie Walker did)-----we can solve alot of air problems by relocation of jobs and population----I know that is to common sense of an idea to work!!! Government regulation is easier!

I don't agree. people should be able to live where they want to, not where gov't wants us to. If you want to live in the big city, then you take the risks associated with it.

If you look at air polution studies, air is much cleaner than it was 20-30-40 years ago. There's no more "Donora, PA" incidents. I don't believe further and stronger regulation is necessary. I beleive it has come about because of lobbying & special interests, not the good of the American people. Going overboard with gov't regulations can lower the quality of life more than the original problems the regulations were originally designed to deal with.

Gov't is usually not the answer, but the problem. However, let's not discuss politics as this thread will be locked if we do.

 

[L-ENTERPRISES]

Thank god us Canadians dont face what the USA is going thru .
I think you Americans are in for a heck of a fried chicken ride shortly.......

 

[NuBota]

Bravo Builder. Very well said. If people would stop crying and just shut up and work this country would be in great shape. There have been times in my life that I had to invent or make my own job. I am sure you are the same way. That is what this country was built on, hard work and ingenuity.

Chris

I'm not sure this contradicts my point. I would say that most, if not all, the folks on this board, do not fall in the "entitlement" category. But I don't know that we are the norm anymore. In my industry I work with mostly younger folks - and I see a distinct difference in work ethic and expectations compared to the older folks. I don't disgree where the blame is to be laid for our economic state - I'm just saying the gov't is still a product of the evolving culture today. Sure many people opposed the banking bailout - because they are either smart enough to realize it will just prolong the inevitable or they believe it is only saving and rewarding Wall Street. But if credit drys up and jobs are lost, not sure they will all sing the same tune. Similar thing with the bad mortgages and the Big 3

My point (verbose as it was) and fear is that those of us that believe in hard work, the free market, and minimal regulation are slowly becoming the minority

 

[Builder]

I'm not sure this contradicts my point. I would say that most, if not all, the folks on this board, do not fall in the "entitlement" category. But I don't know that we are the norm anymore. In my industry I work with mostly younger folks - and I see a distinct difference in work ethic and expectations compared to the older folks. ...............
.........My point (verbose as it was) and fear is that those of us that believe in hard work, the free market, and minimal regulation are slowly becoming the minority

And who instilled this [lesser] work ethic & sense of entitlement in our younger citizens?

I believe the answer would be the parents of those younger ones and the the media and perhaps even our own government to an extent in its' welfare entitlement programs and expanding socialization of our society.

My kids are little. They already know they will earn no rewards in life without hard work and sacrafice. I intend to keep it that way until we eventually become a fully socialistic society dependent on government for all the answers instead of people and then I guess I'll give up...... but not without a fight.

 

[Builder]

Bravo Builder. Very well said. If people would stop crying and just shut up and work this country would be in great shape. There have been times in my life that I had to invent or make my own job. I am sure you are the same way. That is what this country was built on, hard work and ingenuity.

Chris

I'm not sure that's what I said. There are a growing minority of crybabies expecting handouts instead or working, but I actually believe there still are a great deal of people with NO sense of entitlement who still pursue the American Dream.

Look behind the scenes a little closer. A certain politician promises more "programs" and entitlements to those who chose not to work, those folks vote for him, he gets elected to a higher office and promises more tax breaks and entitlements for those who refuse to work, knowing all along there are still a great deal of people that still work hard that can be taxed for these great entitlement programs.

It's called building a voter base. Pretty soon that "entitlement" voter base becomes the majority. Tax at ever increasing rates the remainder to want to work and use those taxes to pay an ever increasing voter base who wish for entitlements. Remember the woman who recently exclaimed that a certain politician after being elected would "pay her mortgage, pay for her car, pay for her fuel".

See how it works?

 

[NuBota]

And who instilled this [lesser] work ethic & sense of entitlement in our younger citizens?

I believe the answer would be the parents of those younger ones and the the media and perhaps even our own government to an extent in its' welfare entitlement programs and expanding socialization of our society.

My kids are little. They already know they will earn no rewards in life without hard work and sacrafice. I intend to keep it that way until we eventually become a fully socialistic society dependent on government for all the answers instead of people and then I guess I'll give up...... but not without a fight.

Yup - we are on the same page. I have 3 teenagers and a little one - and I have fought and am fighting the battle every day. My kids think I'm an ogre at times and the DW and I get looks and comments all the time about how strict we are. Coaching youth sports for the last 15 years has left me in complete disgust. But my 18 yo told me the other day that he is starting to appreciate the fact that he is being made to carry his own weight in the world - compared to his friends. But I have to tell you - it is not (and was not) an easy road.

I think it also may seem different depending on where you are geographically. As I am 30 minutes from D.C., I may experience a completely different demographic than you - and constantly feel I am in the minority when it come to my beliefs and values. I feel lucky when I find neighbors and co-workers that share the same mentality - but they are few and far between. Part of the reason I enjoy this site so much - people with similar mentality. Funny though, if I go another 30 minutes south, all rural, I find my type of people