Toyota slammed for a change?

   / Toyota slammed for a change? #1  

HGM

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
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Location
Georgia
Tractor
YM2000
OK,
I know this will bring heartburn for some folks out there , though thats not why I'm posting this. I feel that for decades the American public has been made to think that anything American is bad, I wont get into all the political reasonings that make me say that. This article questions Toyota for a change, and though some of it may be blown out of proportion, I think its about time that the "Untouchable Toyota" is challenged.

Check it out
Detroit

I never thought I'd link to a "Green" site. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Bluewater

Again, I'm not trying to start a political war, just thought some might like the read.....
 
   / Toyota slammed for a change? #2  
If you want an international perspective on this, then I'd say that the American car industry is probably 5 - 10 years behind Europe or Japan. Having moved to Canada in 2003, I was used to European and Japanese cars. My last two before coming here were a Honda S2000 and a Mercedes Ghelandewagen. The former is state of the art in terms of engineering and brings to medium priced sports cars some of the technology available from Honda's Formula 1 experience. Whilst there are good American sports cars, by and large the technology is old. Example - the Corvette uses a push rod engine - technology from a half century ago.

Second issue - in Europe, about half the cars sold are diesel. Low sulphur diesel is available everywhere, at every gas station. Here many of the gas stations don't stock diesel in any form and low sulphur is still as rare as hens' teeth. The new generation of common rail diesel engines are available in Europe on almost every car from every manufacture. If in doubt, check out UK web sites on the various manufacturers. Not one BMW is available in diesel form here. In Europe, they're pervasive and I can tell you from hiring one in France for two weeks, their diesel engine is nothing short of amazing, fast, refined and very economical. For reasons I really don't understand, neither they nor the other European or Japanese manufacturers (VW excepted and now also one diesel merc available) ship them to America, maybe because there's no market for them. But the new diesel engines are quiet, don't smell, give FAR better mileage than gas engines (and arguably better mileage than hybrids which is a new technology already showing teething problems), have great torque at lower revs. where you need it and are cleaner. Lastly, service intervals for the same car here is about twice what is required in Europe. Example, my S2000 had service intervals every 9000 miles in the UK. Here, they insist every 5000. Same car.

My partner drives a diesel Passat which returns 50 mpg in style and comfort. I drive a gas Toyota Tacoma because I need a pickup. Diesel engine option unavailable here although I can buy a diesel Tacoma off the lot in Europe. Not one small diesel pickup is available here although there are plenty big ones that sound rather like my tractor.

I'm not being unAmerican in offering this opinion and don't intend to offend anybody. I actually like living here which is why I chose the continent as my home. But the current problems Ford and GMC are facing, billion dollar losses and a consequential rush to restructure, illustrate the market stresses that the major manufacturers are experiencing. I wish I was wrong in this, but I think there is a real danger that the American car industry will go the same way as the British did through a lack of r & d and head in the sand management that has resulted in the manufacture of vehicles that are obsolete before they come off the production line.
 
   / Toyota slammed for a change? #3  
I've wondered about the lack of diesel options here too, seems like a no brainer.
 
   / Toyota slammed for a change? #4  
You cannot have modern turbocharged hi tech diesels running for long on antique low quality diesel fuels.

Once ULSD arrives, even though both our VW TDIs run like gangbusters, I'd like to get the new in-house built Honda 2.2L 4 cylinder common-rail turbodiesel as soon as they bring it to North America. A 175HP, 275 pounds of torque turbo diesel in a passenger car that gets 55 miles per gallon is what I want. Then if they make a mid-size pickup truck with that engine, I'd buy that too!
 
   / Toyota slammed for a change? #5  
VW make the Passat engine here to use whatever diesel fuel is available. We don't have to go looking for low sulphur. Jeep have recently brought out a Liberty diesel without a requirement to specifically run on low sulphur fuel. Significantly, both these companies, VW and Daimler/Chrysler are now european owned. There are reasons besides the fuel why the car industry here suppresses diesel sales. Maybe the margins are smaller. I don't know what the reason is but it seems clear it's there.
 
   / Toyota slammed for a change? #6  
I guess that is why when my sister bought a pontiac SUV it was really a Toyota ?
Ben
 
   / Toyota slammed for a change? #7  
Unfortunately, without the proper fuel, diesels would be ultimately banned due to the excessive emissions from the low quality fuels here in North America.
 
   / Toyota slammed for a change? #8  
That's definitely an issue, Skypup, although, as far as I'm aware, the Jeep Liberty diesel meets California emission standards. Maybe low sulphur is readily available there.
 
   / Toyota slammed for a change?
  • Thread Starter
#9  
It's no secret, I too cannot wait for the diesel fuel migration into ULSD next year. I think diesel will be the way to go, if our country finnaly gets our arms around the new wave of diesel engines, with new fuel requirements it is possible to see it be a benifit to our farmers and help our industry for a change. With few diesels to choose from the biodiesel idea is not viable for refinement.

I totally agree with your points about MFG's not evolving. GM and Chrysler had throttle body injection on their pushrod engines up untill a few years ago. Still nothing state of the art, though currently they are the point Ford was 10yrs ago.

I'm not saying American car companies are flawless, they are far from it. I do however believe that the countries media has a way of twisting reports to imply that imports are superior. I do not believe this, there have been other posts here that reflect opinions on this matter so I didnt want to get into that aspect.

They may have different ways of doing things and prove to be reliable, but they are not flawless either. I saw the irony here that the tree huggers are putting Toyota on the stand for a change and thought I'd pass it along.
 
   / Toyota slammed for a change?
  • Thread Starter
#10  
ULSD is available in California. The fuel is the reason we hear so much about carbon issues, it should help greatly when it changes to low sulfer.

The American perception of diesels was tarnished by the early 80's attempts at diesel vehicle by everyone. From GM-Mecedes, they all had issues. They were dirty, smelly, noisy,etc... Verry undesireable, with the new fuel that perception could change.
 

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