Toyota slammed for a change?

[inveresk]

HGM, I think it's fair to say that all the car manufacturers, not just Americans, have been reactive rather than proactive on environmental issues. It just so happens that in Germany where the Green Party has been a significant force in their parliament, they forced through a raft of legislation that required car manufacturers (among others) to consider the impact of their product throughout its life cycle from manufacture to disposal. This is one of the reasons that the German's are environmental leaders in europe, along with the Danes and the Scandinavians. German car technology shows this. Of course it also help that as a nation they are arguably the best automotive engineers on the planet today. Think of quality cars and at the top of the pile are Merc. BMW and Porsche. No accident.

 

[_RaT_]

California is still incredibly restricitve though on the vehicles they allow in. Even the diesel Mercedes were evetually eliminated for being far to polluting. The only diesels allowed are those in 3/4 ton or larger trucks. We can't have the VW models, the Mercedes, the Toyota etc even with low sulphur fuel. I'd like to know why you can have it in Europe but not here. If they are so ahead of the game, why not have Shell Oil, a European company refine ULSD here in the US and let the German manufactuers sell it here. I thought Canada was ULSD only. Look at Germanys economy, it needs far more help then ours and we could use the high milage vehicles that many of us would indeed buy if they were available. In California, we are very tight on emissions. It seems like a match if the ULSD is truly that free of polluting.

 

[SkyPup]

The diesel emission catalysts required to reduce SOx & NOx emissions to legal limits are destroyed by sulfur atoms (both Canada and USA will not be <15ppm of sulfur until June 2006).

One tankful of crud sulfur loaded fuel destroys the catalyst......

Until all the US diesel fuels have 95% less sulfur like in Europe, there will be no passenger cars allowed, (The trucks get by on different laws due to their increasee GWV and not being passenger car design.)

 

[HGM]

inveresk,
While I agree with a large amount of your reply, I do not think of German engineered vehicles as being top of the line. I think its more of a mistique. I have seen several Mercedes, BMW's,VW's, even Ford/Merkur's and the Contour(heavy German influence) that have been engineering nightmares when it came to electronics. Some of the fundamentals may be very high quality, ZF trans for example, typically overengineered but indestructable for the most part. Again, they all have their respective issues and strengths. I do envy the European choice of vehicles though. It would be great to have a choice..

 

[inveresk]

HGM, I agree the German's do tend to overengineer their vehicles although I think this is well intended, part of a continual mission of improvement. A principal and significant achievement, to their credit, is to bring a high degree of refinement to a technology (diesel) that other manufacturers had pretty much given up on as necessarily slow, smelly and dirty. Because of the r & d they have invested, europe has more fuel efficient and cleaner cars although the oil companies have done their bit there too in making low sulphur available. Hopefully, the fuel will be available here soon in volume to allow as much choice for the consumer as there is in europe.

 

[inveresk]

One of the main reasons the German economy is in distress, RaT, is the problems associated with trying to assimilate a country as large as and with as many inherent problems as East Germany. This imposed enormous stresses on the culture and economy which they're still suffering from (liken it, if you will, to America suddenly having to absorb the likes of Mexico). However, I've little doubt they'll complete the task and, once they're done, they'll be the very significant technological power they were in the late 20th Century. In the meantime, I trust they'll still produce cars that I find are a complete joy to own and drive.

 

[gsxr1100]

And how does this effect Toyota quality, selling cars and being on top for so long (11 years)????

But this is a comical one.

"Bluewater notes in its ad, calling the Highlander and Lexus RX 400h "gas guzzlers with no better fuel economy than their non-hybrid versions.""

Really I know people with the 400 h and it gets better then my ES model....

This almost looked like a short Michael Moor movie, just on paper. Go after someone in the spotlight and cause problems.

Then again, Detroit News IS a major news media..... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[HGM]

gsxr1000,
I do agree that some of it was over the top. However I also think it is refreshing to see someone finally give another perspective on the "untouchables". While I do believe they have good quality and fuel economy, I still disagree that they are superior in all ways and do not deserve their share of bad press like our car companies get on a regular basis. There is plenty to go arround....... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[gsxr1100]

I agree, but after owning one I would never own a domestic ever again. I have only owned Pontiac, gm (oldsO), Chevy and 3 Fords.

So far, this has had the least problems out of all. Two issues in almost 4 years and they were not design issues, they were my fault (mice).

I also agree on the slaming part, but I do agree with JDP review on their (toyota cars). Again, Lexus (toyo) being top for 11-years is pretty untouchable based on history.

 

[_RaT_]

<font color="blue">In the meantime, I trust they'll still produce cars that I find are a complete joy to own and drive. </font>

I certainly agree. We could discuss some other ramifications of Germanys economic doldrum beyond that of East Germany being absorbed into the Western Germany but that would be getting political and would rather not go there. I see so many foreign cars here in California, we are truly the foreign car capital of at least the US. Japanese cars have certainly been a popular choice but no doubt see plenty of Mercedes, BMW and Volvo's. My preference would be a compact truck with good mileage. I found they don't really exist here in the US. I would love to see the US build better cars, it would be beneficial for Canada and Mexico both. As our economy goes so does much of theirs. As far as full size trucks go, I still like what we have here. I drive the Toyota Tundra routinely and frankly am underwhelmed inspite of its high marks with some folks and magazines.