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Track Loader For Residential Use - Am I Insane?
- Thread starter bmac
- Start date
- Views: 8970
Man, I'm having a hard time keeping up with you folks.
Highbeam,
<font color="blue"> By "track loader" are you referring to the skid steer with tracks? Or a bulldozer with a loader instead of a blade? </font>
Well, the used machines I looked at online were Bobcat T180, T190 and T200. Not sure, but I think these are in the 50-60 HP range. They are about the size of a conventional skidsteer but have rubber tracks instead of wheels.
Highbeam,
<font color="blue"> By "track loader" are you referring to the skid steer with tracks? Or a bulldozer with a loader instead of a blade? </font>
Well, the used machines I looked at online were Bobcat T180, T190 and T200. Not sure, but I think these are in the 50-60 HP range. They are about the size of a conventional skidsteer but have rubber tracks instead of wheels.
Hey, Jeff,
<font color="blue"> One thing your certainly not short on is opinions and advice </font> Amen, brother!
<font color="blue"> What about compaction. While the weight of you tractor may do some harm it will be pail in comparison to a bobcat. You will likely do damage to your yard, septic and concrete working around to plant shrubs.
</font>
Well, my understanding is that the tracked units actually have a low psi due to the weight being spread out over a large area. They are heavy machines, for sure. Don't know if the weight distribution would mitigate any damage to things like the septic system or not. You bring up some good points.
<font color="blue"> I IMHO would look at a rental for a week or month and go to town on your trails. </font>
Actually, it was brought up in another thread that I should rent a skidsteer for the trail work. It was that suggestion that got me looking into the prices of used machines (I actually hate renting equipment as I've had bad experience with things breaking. Furthermore, when I stopped by the rental yard the other day, the skidsteers that had on the lot had tires that were almost slick. No way would they work). Things started spiraling downward from there as I started looking at tracked machines. It was then that I posed my question here. In case I didn't say it clearly, yes, I will certainly rent before I buy.
Things have gotten a little out of sequence here, but I think most folks here are recommending that I avoid buying a skidsteer or track loader. It will be interesting to see what ultimately happens.
Thanks for the reply.
<font color="blue"> One thing your certainly not short on is opinions and advice </font> Amen, brother!
<font color="blue"> What about compaction. While the weight of you tractor may do some harm it will be pail in comparison to a bobcat. You will likely do damage to your yard, septic and concrete working around to plant shrubs.
</font>
Well, my understanding is that the tracked units actually have a low psi due to the weight being spread out over a large area. They are heavy machines, for sure. Don't know if the weight distribution would mitigate any damage to things like the septic system or not. You bring up some good points.
<font color="blue"> I IMHO would look at a rental for a week or month and go to town on your trails. </font>
Actually, it was brought up in another thread that I should rent a skidsteer for the trail work. It was that suggestion that got me looking into the prices of used machines (I actually hate renting equipment as I've had bad experience with things breaking. Furthermore, when I stopped by the rental yard the other day, the skidsteers that had on the lot had tires that were almost slick. No way would they work). Things started spiraling downward from there as I started looking at tracked machines. It was then that I posed my question here. In case I didn't say it clearly, yes, I will certainly rent before I buy.
Things have gotten a little out of sequence here, but I think most folks here are recommending that I avoid buying a skidsteer or track loader. It will be interesting to see what ultimately happens.
Thanks for the reply.
Brian,
I have followed the Toolcat forum since it was started. I love that machine. It probably would serve my needs better than anything that I've considered buying or that has been recommended by others.
The main obstacle I think might be price. I believe it was you who responded to someone on the Toolcat forum that used units with the heated/cooled cab would probably be hard to find. Also, from following that forum, it seems like the C-series have enough distinct advantages over the A and B that it would preferable to own one of those. Probably next to impossible to locate a used C-series (but, admittedly, I haven't looked).
The other question I would have relates to attachments. Standard Bobcat attachments are readily available at the rental yard. However, I'm still not clear on how many of those can be used on the ToolCat. For example, can the Toolcat run a Bobcat brush cutter? How about an auger. Again, I just don't know. If attachments can't be rented, then the cost of ownership goes up considerably.
Still, I think I'd be a coolcat in a ToolCat (sorry, I couldn't resist).
I have followed the Toolcat forum since it was started. I love that machine. It probably would serve my needs better than anything that I've considered buying or that has been recommended by others.
The main obstacle I think might be price. I believe it was you who responded to someone on the Toolcat forum that used units with the heated/cooled cab would probably be hard to find. Also, from following that forum, it seems like the C-series have enough distinct advantages over the A and B that it would preferable to own one of those. Probably next to impossible to locate a used C-series (but, admittedly, I haven't looked).
The other question I would have relates to attachments. Standard Bobcat attachments are readily available at the rental yard. However, I'm still not clear on how many of those can be used on the ToolCat. For example, can the Toolcat run a Bobcat brush cutter? How about an auger. Again, I just don't know. If attachments can't be rented, then the cost of ownership goes up considerably.
Still, I think I'd be a coolcat in a ToolCat (sorry, I couldn't resist).
BrianSouthernMD
Silver Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2005
- Messages
- 227
- Location
- Southern MD
- Tractor
- 2005 Bobcat Toolcat 5600 Turbo 56hp, 2003 DR Field & Brush Mower 17hp, 1981 Cub Cadet 582 16hp
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Brian, I have followed the Toolcat forum since it was started. I love that machine. It probably would serve my needs better than anything that I've considered buying or that has been recommended by others.
The main obstacle I think might be price. I believe it was you who responded to someone on the Toolcat forum that used units with the heated/cooled cab would probably be hard to find. Also, from following that forum, it seems like the C-series have enough distinct advantages over the A and B that it would preferable to own one of those. Probably next to impossible to locate a used C-series (but, admittedly, I haven't looked).
The other question I would have relates to attachments. Standard Bobcat attachments are readily available at the rental yard. However, I'm still not clear on how many of those can be used on the ToolCat. For example, can the Toolcat run a Bobcat brush cutter? How about an auger. Again, I just don't know. If attachments can't be rented, then the cost of ownership goes up considerably. Still, I think I'd be a coolcat in a ToolCat (sorry, I couldn't resist). )</font>
bmac,
I agree, the Toolcat satifies your needs and desires on a lot of levels. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Let me tackle the concerns you just mentioned:
If you HAVE to have the new C-series Toolcat features, price is no longer your top priority; few used C units are available, but some might be by time you buy. You may decide to go this route anyway, even buying new.
But a used 2003-2004 A-series or 2004-2005 B-series Toolcat 5600 provides quite a lot and many more used units are becoming available, especially as Bobcat dealers upgrade their demo and rental fleets from A & B to C versions. I'm pleased with my B-series unit; 4-wheel steering, axle oscillation and such are there on all Toolcats, not just new Cs. And most Toolcats have been sold with HVAC and cab enclosure doors.
Toolcats can use the vast majority of skid steer attachments. Bobcat recently expanded the range of attachments formally approved for Toolcat use. More are formally approved for C, but A/B handle most, too. Most anything approved for the S130 or S150 or S160 SSL is now Toolcat approved, except concrete breaker, some hoes, etc. The Toolcat works great with augers and Bobcat/other rotary and flail brushcutters. Many SSL attachments can be rented for a Toolcat, buy you'll also want to buy several to dabble on projects at your leisure!
Because the Toolcat was introduced only in 2003, institutional buyers like municipalities, schools and universities haven't sold initial purchases and upgraded yet, but they will. Still, there are used Toolcats out there for you to find and get a good value.
But I repeat once more -- as soon as you have a day or two at the property, arrange a TOOLCAT DEMO from your closest Bobcat dealer WITH attachments like brush grapple, rotary brushcutter, buckets, etc. Start some of the tasks you want to do. Demo a Toolcat even if you're not ready buy right away; dealer won't mind. I'd bet that demo will sharpen/focus your machine research and actual search.
The main obstacle I think might be price. I believe it was you who responded to someone on the Toolcat forum that used units with the heated/cooled cab would probably be hard to find. Also, from following that forum, it seems like the C-series have enough distinct advantages over the A and B that it would preferable to own one of those. Probably next to impossible to locate a used C-series (but, admittedly, I haven't looked).
The other question I would have relates to attachments. Standard Bobcat attachments are readily available at the rental yard. However, I'm still not clear on how many of those can be used on the ToolCat. For example, can the Toolcat run a Bobcat brush cutter? How about an auger. Again, I just don't know. If attachments can't be rented, then the cost of ownership goes up considerably. Still, I think I'd be a coolcat in a ToolCat (sorry, I couldn't resist). )</font>
bmac,
I agree, the Toolcat satifies your needs and desires on a lot of levels. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Let me tackle the concerns you just mentioned:
If you HAVE to have the new C-series Toolcat features, price is no longer your top priority; few used C units are available, but some might be by time you buy. You may decide to go this route anyway, even buying new.
But a used 2003-2004 A-series or 2004-2005 B-series Toolcat 5600 provides quite a lot and many more used units are becoming available, especially as Bobcat dealers upgrade their demo and rental fleets from A & B to C versions. I'm pleased with my B-series unit; 4-wheel steering, axle oscillation and such are there on all Toolcats, not just new Cs. And most Toolcats have been sold with HVAC and cab enclosure doors.
Toolcats can use the vast majority of skid steer attachments. Bobcat recently expanded the range of attachments formally approved for Toolcat use. More are formally approved for C, but A/B handle most, too. Most anything approved for the S130 or S150 or S160 SSL is now Toolcat approved, except concrete breaker, some hoes, etc. The Toolcat works great with augers and Bobcat/other rotary and flail brushcutters. Many SSL attachments can be rented for a Toolcat, buy you'll also want to buy several to dabble on projects at your leisure!
Because the Toolcat was introduced only in 2003, institutional buyers like municipalities, schools and universities haven't sold initial purchases and upgraded yet, but they will. Still, there are used Toolcats out there for you to find and get a good value.
But I repeat once more -- as soon as you have a day or two at the property, arrange a TOOLCAT DEMO from your closest Bobcat dealer WITH attachments like brush grapple, rotary brushcutter, buckets, etc. Start some of the tasks you want to do. Demo a Toolcat even if you're not ready buy right away; dealer won't mind. I'd bet that demo will sharpen/focus your machine research and actual search.
tlbuser
Veteran Member
</font><font color="blueclass=small">( tlbuser,
Thanks for the reply.
Hence, my desire to (a) limit my fleet to one machine that will do most of what I want to do with it and (b) not be foolish by buying a new machine when there are probably very adequate pieces of used equipment out there at substantial savings. Something close to an even swap would, in my view, just be prudent.
For the narrow trails I'm making and the other clearing I want to do, a dozer is just too big, as is a full sized TLB. The manuverability of the skidsteer would be nice as would the narrow footprint.
I know I'm probably coming across as arguementative with everyone's suggestions, and I don't mean to be. Well, those things have already been done. I just want something for "productive playtime".
Most of these I COULD do with my NH 29D. However, my woods do have some areas where the slope may raise the pucker factor with the NH. The tight trails I'm making may make manuvering the NH a little challenging in some areas. Planting shrubs with a front mounted auger would be easier than with either a BH or a rear PTO driven auger. And so on.
I do appreciate the feedback and suggestions, and I would like to have a dozer, TLB, mini-excavator, etc., but I was really trying to ask about the "practicality" of switching from a conventional CUT to a rubber tracked loader for the tasks I plan to do on this property. Thus far, the most valuable reply to me addressed the issue of turf damage from the rubber tracks. Other things that would be of interest to me would be reliability and maintenance issues. An example of this, as I have mentioned before, is track replacement costs. For someone who is using their machinery to generate income, this is just the cost of doing business. For the homeowner, casual user, this becomes a more important part of the equation. It is for these reasons that I questioned my "sanity" for even considering something like a track loader.
I hope this clarifies my original intent with this post. I hate it when someone asks for my opinion and then they proceed to tell me why my opinion is wrong. I was beginning to feel I was doing the same thing here. I apologize if I've come across as unappreciative. )</font>
Nope, I didn't see anything defensive in what you wrote. And, somehow I missed the whole thread on the house project, my fault. Now that I've reread what you intended, IMO I would stick with the 29D and either rent a track loader and make bigger trails that would accomodate the 29D or get the excavation contractor back in to do them for you (no fun that way).
Maintenance costs really work out about the same. They all need filters and fluids, etc. Tracks can be expensive, but so are new tires.
BTW, our old JD350 only had a 71" 4n1 bucket.
<font color="blue"> Something breaks - no problem. You pull out the welder and fix it. Machine doesn't have what you need. Easy, you make one. </font>
Just a different learning curve. As with many other things, if you're willing to try, you just may exceed the goal.
Opposite of Eddie, I like loaders, not dozers /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Thanks for the reply.
Hence, my desire to (a) limit my fleet to one machine that will do most of what I want to do with it and (b) not be foolish by buying a new machine when there are probably very adequate pieces of used equipment out there at substantial savings. Something close to an even swap would, in my view, just be prudent.
For the narrow trails I'm making and the other clearing I want to do, a dozer is just too big, as is a full sized TLB. The manuverability of the skidsteer would be nice as would the narrow footprint.
I know I'm probably coming across as arguementative with everyone's suggestions, and I don't mean to be. Well, those things have already been done. I just want something for "productive playtime".
Most of these I COULD do with my NH 29D. However, my woods do have some areas where the slope may raise the pucker factor with the NH. The tight trails I'm making may make manuvering the NH a little challenging in some areas. Planting shrubs with a front mounted auger would be easier than with either a BH or a rear PTO driven auger. And so on.
I do appreciate the feedback and suggestions, and I would like to have a dozer, TLB, mini-excavator, etc., but I was really trying to ask about the "practicality" of switching from a conventional CUT to a rubber tracked loader for the tasks I plan to do on this property. Thus far, the most valuable reply to me addressed the issue of turf damage from the rubber tracks. Other things that would be of interest to me would be reliability and maintenance issues. An example of this, as I have mentioned before, is track replacement costs. For someone who is using their machinery to generate income, this is just the cost of doing business. For the homeowner, casual user, this becomes a more important part of the equation. It is for these reasons that I questioned my "sanity" for even considering something like a track loader.
I hope this clarifies my original intent with this post. I hate it when someone asks for my opinion and then they proceed to tell me why my opinion is wrong. I was beginning to feel I was doing the same thing here. I apologize if I've come across as unappreciative. )</font>
Nope, I didn't see anything defensive in what you wrote. And, somehow I missed the whole thread on the house project, my fault. Now that I've reread what you intended, IMO I would stick with the 29D and either rent a track loader and make bigger trails that would accomodate the 29D or get the excavation contractor back in to do them for you (no fun that way).
Maintenance costs really work out about the same. They all need filters and fluids, etc. Tracks can be expensive, but so are new tires.
BTW, our old JD350 only had a 71" 4n1 bucket.
<font color="blue"> Something breaks - no problem. You pull out the welder and fix it. Machine doesn't have what you need. Easy, you make one. </font>
Just a different learning curve. As with many other things, if you're willing to try, you just may exceed the goal.
Opposite of Eddie, I like loaders, not dozers /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
rox
Veteran Member
bmac,
I understand how seductive the ToolCats are to those of us who don't regularly personally use heavy equipment. I am waiting to see what their lower priced model will come it at.
Seeing as how you are mulling your equipment needs around in your head jsut poking to figure out what is out there, why don't you take a look at the Avant
http://www.avanttecno.com/web/engtuotteet/avant216eng.htm
In the USA they are distributed by Gehl Dealers, and there are 2 in Georgia, I think you are form Georgia if I remember right.
Top fo the line to me is the ToolCat though, love that small pickup bed it has in back, with the front having the implements.
I jsut helped my husband take a big sprayer off the back of the 3PH and connect up the big serious rototiller which was and is a PIA, so anything that is easy on easy off is extreemly appealing. The Avant in Europe is selling for around 10,000 Euros, the 300 models so it does have a low price. The only wierd thing about the Avant is that you have to drive backwards to make the rototiller work which is a deal breaker for our use. We rototill 2 to 3 times a year and going backwards all that time is not feasible.
I wonder if on the ToolCat, if you have to drive backwards to make the rototiller work? I do see why you are attracted to the ToolCat, for your use, going in and out of the woods, it has a pretty good speed for highway speed also, digging and dragging, etc. it is sure nice. We also have 12 acres, so I can identify with the size of your property. Good Luck to you!
I understand how seductive the ToolCats are to those of us who don't regularly personally use heavy equipment. I am waiting to see what their lower priced model will come it at.
Seeing as how you are mulling your equipment needs around in your head jsut poking to figure out what is out there, why don't you take a look at the Avant
http://www.avanttecno.com/web/engtuotteet/avant216eng.htm
In the USA they are distributed by Gehl Dealers, and there are 2 in Georgia, I think you are form Georgia if I remember right.
Top fo the line to me is the ToolCat though, love that small pickup bed it has in back, with the front having the implements.
I jsut helped my husband take a big sprayer off the back of the 3PH and connect up the big serious rototiller which was and is a PIA, so anything that is easy on easy off is extreemly appealing. The Avant in Europe is selling for around 10,000 Euros, the 300 models so it does have a low price. The only wierd thing about the Avant is that you have to drive backwards to make the rototiller work which is a deal breaker for our use. We rototill 2 to 3 times a year and going backwards all that time is not feasible.
I wonder if on the ToolCat, if you have to drive backwards to make the rototiller work? I do see why you are attracted to the ToolCat, for your use, going in and out of the woods, it has a pretty good speed for highway speed also, digging and dragging, etc. it is sure nice. We also have 12 acres, so I can identify with the size of your property. Good Luck to you!
millsnhills
Silver Member
Curse you Brian /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif for making me read up on the ToolCat. Now that does seem to be the one tool that could do all.
I guess as others have pointed out in this thread and the Toolcat forum the limiting factor for residential users is the price. Even the base machince less any attachments is well beyond what I could afford. Add in the attachment cost and I could have two setups I have now.
Man I hope they come out with a smaller unit because that would be the ticket for year round use..
I guess as others have pointed out in this thread and the Toolcat forum the limiting factor for residential users is the price. Even the base machince less any attachments is well beyond what I could afford. Add in the attachment cost and I could have two setups I have now.
Man I hope they come out with a smaller unit because that would be the ticket for year round use..
toy1
Silver Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2002
- Messages
- 188
- Location
- Goshen, CT.
- Tractor
- kobota KX 080-3,R630, KX121-3, L48, L4630, bx23, cat257, M9000,(3) RTV1100,jd450h, ASV100 ,zd331,
I can give you a little advice in regards to options based on my own situation, I would never replace my tractor l48tlb with a skid steer! I started to add equipment to my fleet(as my wife refers to it) as my needs have changed. I have a CAT257 that I would never sell, it is just one excellent piece of equipment it can out load, out maneuver, out grade, out lift, has more powerful aux hyd,then my tractor; but it cannot dig as well,it cannot use 3pt, pto attachments as well if at all, it is not as versatile, I can be loading with my tractor hit a rock or stump turn around and dig it out with the hoe, cannot do that with 257. Each machine has it pro's and con's. I think that with enought of time which I am in short supply of you can get alot done with the tractor and in the long run it may be all you need. For 20 years all I had was a international 3444 tlb and I can tell you I accomplished alot.Today the scope of the project is much greater we are turning our 105 acres into a family compound were my two daughter are building houses and we are turning the rest of the property into a Blueberry farm I am also preparing my self for retirement I am getting all of my equipment inline and hopfully with the grace of God I can someday ride into the sunset on my tractor.I always say with the right amount of time, energy(health), knowledge and money you can accomplish anything so use that formula and substitute your values for each.
BrianSouthernMD
Silver Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2005
- Messages
- 227
- Location
- Southern MD
- Tractor
- 2005 Bobcat Toolcat 5600 Turbo 56hp, 2003 DR Field & Brush Mower 17hp, 1981 Cub Cadet 582 16hp
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Curse you Brian /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif for making me read up on the ToolCat. Now that does seem to be the one tool that could do all... Man I hope they come out with a smaller unit because that would be the ticket for year round use.. )</font>
millsnhills,
Never count on unannounced (or even yet-to-be-delivered) products, but evidently Bobcat aims to have the smaller and lighter Toolcat 4600 available for customers around Sept or Oct 2006. Of course that date is subject to change. See thread in Toolcat forum for details.
And buy what meets your particular needs and desires. After demoing the 4WS Toolcat 5600 and experiencing how it accomplished what I wanted, I could not justify spending good money on a conventional tractor or skid steer loader and end up not being satisfied with capabilities.
millsnhills,
Never count on unannounced (or even yet-to-be-delivered) products, but evidently Bobcat aims to have the smaller and lighter Toolcat 4600 available for customers around Sept or Oct 2006. Of course that date is subject to change. See thread in Toolcat forum for details.
And buy what meets your particular needs and desires. After demoing the 4WS Toolcat 5600 and experiencing how it accomplished what I wanted, I could not justify spending good money on a conventional tractor or skid steer loader and end up not being satisfied with capabilities.
