Traction Traction Issues

   / Traction Issues #1  

Achilles

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
29
Location
Buffalo New York
Tractor
Mahindra 2615
This is the first year on the 4310 and fairly new to the rear blower. Does any have issues with r4's and traction on a slight grade on black top. Holy Moly. The rear end especially is quite squirrely. I have heard of folks swapping sides with the tires/wheels thus improving traction. Is this worth my time??? I have a woods 60" and have kept the FEL on. Tires are not loaded. I figure with the loader and the blower I have plenty of weight. I have tended to try and float the blower and not rest all the wt. on the ground and that helps a bit but not too much. Any suggestions out there other than strapping chains on and thus munching my driveway to
Sh*$? I have read in certain threads that folks generally like turfs better in this type application, any thoughts? Thanks for any help.

4310man, cold in Buffalo, NY
 
   / Traction Issues #2  
There is an alternative tire chain that you may want to consider. The crossbars are made of rubber and the side links are made of regular chain. The rubber does not damage paved driveways. See attached photo where I have tham on both front and rear of a 955.

These Traction Aids (as they are called) are made by Hemler Manufacturing of Lancaster, PA. I ordered mine through Dave Anderson of Deer Creek Equipment, Oxford, PA. (800-255-6567).

I also had the maximum amount of cast rear wheel weight on the 955 as you can see. No problem with traction at all and no scuffing of the asphalt.

JackIL
 

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   / Traction Issues #3  
Conventional wisdom would say you need ballast.

How much weight per horsepower do you have now, excluding implements? My 30 hp JD 790 would only have about 70 lb/hp without ballast. I think most applications need to get up over 100 lb/hp excluding implements. Of course the ground surface quality matters too, but I think the 100 lb/hp min is probably in the ballpark for most applications. Horsepower tends to make them slip, weight (friction) tends to make them grip, you have to have a balance.

Don't count on your loader offering any assistance, most of it's weight is in front of the front wheels and hurts more than it helps. I plan to add about 1000 pounds of wheel weights (home-made). That will give me just about 103 lb/hp before adding any implements. If that isn't enough, I could add about another 600 pounds by filling my R4s. That would get me up to 123 lb/hp.

The best place to add weight is at the wheels themselves. There is no point adding 50% more load to my wheel bearings and chassis when I don't have to. Weight on the wheel only stresses the wheel rim and just sits on the ground. Sure, I know the bearings can survive the load, but if I can get the job done at the wheels, that's my preference.

I have a 537 pound boxblade that will help with ballast when I'm lifting with the FEL, but that doesn't help when I'm dragging the boxblade on the ground. Actually I will get better rear traction for the boxblade by taking the FEL off.

Cheapest commercially available steel I've seen is weightlifting weights. Walmart had 45 pound weights that were about 15" diameter and 1.5" thick, $21 each, $0.47/lb. I could fit six of those in each of my 15-19.5 R4s, for 270 pounds each wheel. You can get a kit from EZ-Weight to attach a 1" threaded rod on the wheel for mounting weightlifting weights, but personally I decided that I would just drill the weightlifting weights for the standard wheel-weight bolt pattern. I've also heard of 50 lb weights that are thinner than this, but the WalMart deal is the best price I've found. Tractor-branded wheel weights may cost about $1 to $2 /lb.

Of course you can also fill the tires. My R4s would hold about 29 gallons at 75% full (to keep the valve above water). Non-corrosive "Rim-Guard" costs about $3/gal around here, and is about 11lb/gal, for a total of 319 pounds per wheel at $0.27/lb. Water is free at about 8 pounds/gal, but would freeze, so some put glycol in, but if you have to drain it out, that's a lot of poisonous glycol to drain someplace and keep the animals out of it. Windshield washer fluid is about $0.99/gal at WalMart, rated anywhere from 0degF, -20degF, and some even -50degF, but lighter than water, maybe about 7lb/gal, for about $0.14/lb.

In my case I found a 1500 pound plate of 3/8" steel that I plan to cut up into 16" disks. Flat plate like that adds up to more weight per wheel because it is completely flat. Weightlifting weights have lots of recesses (raised lettering, recessed surfaces, hole in the middle) so they don't give you as much weight density. I even thought about filling the holes and recesses with molten lead before drilling and stacking them...

The flat plate of steel won in the end for me. It is going to cost me a bit to cut it up into disks, but gives me the best weight per wheel without filling the tires.

That pretty well summarizes my thought process about tractive ballast.
 
   / Traction Issues #4  
Dont know if you use your FEL much while blowing, but you might want to see how your tractor performs with it OFF. As its been said, the FEL hangs weight in FRONT of the tractor, and may actually pull weight off your back end. If it is easy to take off, you may wanna give it a try.
Also "floating your snowblower". Not sure what u mean, but you may want pick up your blower a hair so it clears the ground and its entire weight hangs on the 3PT. (Maybe you do this already?) Can't give you a lot of advice as i have never run a snowblower before.
 
   / Traction Issues #5  
The best winter tire on black top is the turf tire as it gives the best foot print or has the largest amount of contact. The industrials have had some troubles for traction and the best that might be suggested is to be sure the air pressure is right to give you the most amount of grip. Lower your air pressure so that the complete bar is on the ground touching on both outer ends of the cleats. That will give youthe best traction you can have with any tire.
 
   / Traction Issues #6  
One thing you need to note about tire width size and snow. The larger the footprint, the less amount of weight per square inch on ground contact. So a wider tire actually has less grabbing capabilities than a skinny tire in the snow. They are better for traction on dry ground. I found this out years ago plowing with 12.00-16.5's on my old F250 I had. I was always getting stuck in snow banks and such. My buddy suggested a standard width snow tire. Back then I too thought that the wider meant better, not true. Narrow tires cut through the snow better to get to the hard surface faster. Turfs stink in the snow. I can't climb anything with my naked turfs. The only thing that saves me is the front tires are industrials. I am putting chains on my rear turfs today.
 
   / Traction Issues #7  
Get yourself a set of double ring chains, the difference is amazing. I can do things now in 2wd that I couldn't do before in 4wd with the diff locked.

Don't take your fel off, you'll need it for stacking snow or cleaning out aroung the mailbox and the front of the garage, etc.

My tires are calcium loaded, and would do it again. I don't use the tractor for finish mowing, so the extra weight doesn't bother me.
 
   / Traction Issues #8  
4310man,

In response to several comments about the FEL hurting traction:
Whatever weight the FEL takes off the rear wheels, it transfers to the front wheels, in addition to the weight of the FEL itself to the front wheels. So a 500 lb FEL takes 500 lb off the rear but adds 1000 lb to the front. If You're in 2WD you lose traction but if you're in 4WD you gain traction.

John
 
   / Traction Issues #9  
John, Your analysis just answered your initial question on the rear end being loose (light) with the loader. I'd be inclined to fill the rear tires if that doesn't create another problem and if your sitting on the $$$$. You also reduce air pressure with filled tires and get a real good footprint of tire on the ground with R-4's. If it's hilly it also stabilizes the tractor laterally. You may need chains too, but if your making do (albeit nerve wracking) without filled tires, filling would be the other best solution. Just one thing to remember with weight. Once is starts moving (sliding) it's generally slower to stop. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Good Luck /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Traction Issues #10  
Put a set of these on and you will have tons of traction.
 

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