Tractor for a specific use. Must handle 3,000 pounds.

[roadhunter]

I am needing to handle more weight than my current tractor will handle and wanted to get some suggestions. My current tractor is a 45 HP Bobcat (Kioti/Daedong) with a cab and FEL. I bought it about a year and a half ago and have really enjoyed it. IT has dual rear and front remotes. Dual AG on the rear and one AG And one skid steer on the front. The skid steer OQ is tied to the loader so you can press a button and use the curl function on the loader to operate the implement. Things like a grapple work great so you dont' have to move your hand from the loader control. The cab is really nice here in the winter and the little tractor does pretty well in the snow, especially with a box blade on back with a hydraulic top link. My neighbors all have big 100+ hp John Deere tractors so they like to give me a hard time. I have recently ordered a post peeler for it. Here is that thread.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/332831-pto-post-peeler.html?highlight=



While waiting for the peeler to arrive from France I have started stockpiling rap logs in the 4" - 10" range typically just over 7-8 ft long. I immediately noticed that I was not able to lift very many raw logs while unloading my trailer. I have a pretty heavy box blade I built out of some scrap I beam and Channel it it work great as a counterweight. Even with that It still takes me 5 trips to unload a trailer with about 100 logs and these are all dry. I'm supposed to start taking delivery of green material in the next few weeks and it's going to be slow going trying to unload with this setup. The machine is rated for 2050 pounds of lift capacity at 500mm in front of bucket pivot and 2,600 at the bucket pivot. I have the bob tach option so that probably adds a couple hundred pounds and the forks probably weigh a couple hundred to my guess is the machine likely has a capacity of around 1500 or less pounds halfway down the forks. So when I have about 15-20 logs on (depending on size) I am pushing the limits of the machine. Unfortunately that is not going to be enough to lift the correct size bunks that I have to bundle the peeled posts in to sell to the mill. Those are going to weigh around 2,500 up to a max of about 3,000 pound and a little more than that if I ever have them treated and have to unload them. Essentially I need a machine that will lift 2,500 pounds comfortably. Unfortunately the little Bobcat/Kioti/Daedong is not going to work. Which is too bad because the peeler only requires about 20 HP at the PTO to work so this would have been a nice little setup and been pretty easy on fuel.



I've considered just buying another piece of equipment like a little versahandler or other small telehandler or even an off road fork lift. I have a construction background and owned a JCB 550 telehandler in the past and absolutely loved that machine so I have a soft spot for telehandlers. I like the size of the little Bobcat versahandler, 10,000 pounds. But after looking at costs for those types of machines I don't think I can afford to go that route. . New ones are about 65k and I found a used one if pretty good shape for around 40k. I just can't justify having 70-100k tied up in equipment to run that little peeler no matter how much I just want a telehandler.

So I started looking at other options. Bobcat actually makes a little machine with a PTO that would run the peeler.
Toolcat 5610 Specs & Options - Bobcat Company
Unfortunately it does not have the necessary lift capacity on the FEL.

Essentially I need a machine that has a 3 point hitch and at least 20 HP at the PTO and is as fuel efficient as possible. 3 point must be able to handle about 2,000 pounds. It also has to be able to lift 3,000+ pounds and handle 2,500 pound loads comfortably with the FEL. Also needs to be easy to operate in close quarters as there will be a lot of handling of logs so being able to change directions easily is a necessity. The hydrostatic drive on the little Bobcat tractor was really nice for this but I also found the shifting on my JCB 550 loadall quite easy. I would prefer to keep it under 15k pounds so it can be moved on a tandem dual trailer. Under 10k would even be better to not make ruts and be easy to haul although I do not anticipate hauling this that much. I live out in the middle of nowhere so having a dealer in Rapid City (2 hours away) is a must for parts and service. There are a few equipment dealers in Scottsbluff and most of the small towns have a tractor dealership so there are John Deere, Challenger, and New Holland dealers within an hour of my house as well. I have a new startup Bobcat dealership in my town but they don't' have much inventory yet. The last bobcat dealer (Where I bought my Tractor) got bought out and is now a Challenger(cat) dealer.

I've looked at the larger tractors in the 90+ hp range and I like them but am afraid they will burn too much fuel while just running the peeler. I noticed John Deere makes a 5075E tractor that has an economy mode for the pto where the engine only has to run at 1,700 rpm to spin the pto at 540 rpm. That wound really appealing to me as that would likely save quite a bit of fuel running the pto powered peeler. MY only concern in the FEL capacity. That loader is only rated for 3,000 pounds at the pivot. Sometime manufacturers are conservative and you can lift a little more but am not familiar with John Deere and how it does thier loader specs. I know for example most skid steers will lift quite a bit more than they are rated for in many cases. It looks like the unit was made for handling bales so it should change directions and maneuver pretty well
SPecs
TractorData.com John Deere 5075E tractor information
Loader specs
TractorData.com John Deere 5075E tractor attachments information

Another unit I have looked at is the JCS 212SU. As I mentioned earlier I have owned a JCB telehandler in the past and really had good luck with it. The 212SU is a tractor but more of a construction tractor versus a farming tractor. It weighs quite a bit more and although I can't find specs I have no doubt it will lift 3,000 pounds with the FEL. I'd guess over 4,000 pounds. Weights around 13k pounds. Has 75 HP and only requires 1,700 RPMs to operate the pto at 540 rpm. There are a few I found over in Iowa.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list/list.aspx?Manu=JCB&Mdltxt=212SU

My guess is that the JCB will make the others look like toys because of the weight and heavier FEL. The 4 wheel steering looks like a great option for what I am going to be doing as well. I'm leaning towards finding a 212SU with a cab.

Anyone have any thoughts on other machines that would work well for this application?

Experience with a JCB 212SU or JD 5075?

My thinking is to take the Bobcat down to Ft Collins and sell it so someone with a "Ranchette" where it will grade the driveway, move snow, and do other light farm type use where it will excel. Any Idea what that machine is worth used with about 115 hours?

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I have a 5083e which allowed me to go up to the next size loader a 563 and I believe it's rated at 4klbs and the tractor isn't a whole lot bigger. IMO though, fuel economy is going to be a big deal, and so is saving money. Why haven't you considered a skid steer for unloading logs? They have a great view of the forks and are significantly cheaper than a utility sized tractor unless you look at an older machine. You could thend keep your bobcat to run the peeler and keep the fuel economy.

 

[roadhunter]

I have a 5083e which allowed me to go up to the next size loader a 563 and I believe it's rated at 4klbs and the tractor isn't a whole lot bigger. IMO though, fuel economy is going to be a big deal, and so is saving money. Why haven't you considered a skid steer for unloading logs? They have a great view of the forks and are significantly cheaper than a utility sized tractor unless you look at an older machine. You could thend keep your bobcat to run the peeler and keep the fuel economy.

Interesting. That might just fit the bill as the FEL was really my only issue with the 5075 and having a dealer up the road would be nice. How do you like youre 5083e? How many hours and what is your primary use?

I have considered a skid steer but admittedly I am a bit of a skid steer "hater". The larger units would certainly do the job of loading that much weight but I would still need the tractor for the peeler. That would be really nice in some ways but would also require double the payments, insurance, maintenance, etc... . I do not think it is convenient getting in and out of them and am afraid that operating them in the winter traction would be an issue without chains and then they would tear the ground up pretty bad. I get 10+ ft snow drifts here in the winter and skid steers are almost useless in heavy snow. I also can't stand how you have to have the forks on the ground to get in and out if you have a cab so the door will swing open. But I certainly agree that it would work well and likely increase production having 2 pieces of equipment. The little JBC skid steers with side entry would probable be a better option for me as there will be lots of jumping in/out to move logs for a short period and crawling over the bucket every time will get old real quick in a standard skid steer. Having 2 pieces of equipment also means lots of starts for the second piece of equipment where the tractor can just stay running while peeling and then be used for loading/unloading without shutting down. I'm sure at some point I will need 2 machines but I think I might focus on 1 that will do it all right now to keep things simple.

I like the looks of this one with the 563 loader you mentioned.
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9612881

 

[brown40]

I have a 5083e which allowed me to go up to the next size loader a 563 and I believe it's rated at 4klbs and the tractor isn't a whole lot bigger. IMO though, fuel economy is going to be a big deal, and so is saving money. Why haven't you considered a skid steer for unloading logs? They have a great view of the forks and are significantly cheaper than a utility sized tractor unless you look at an older machine. You could thend keep your bobcat to run the peeler and keep the fuel economy.

A skid steer would run circles around anything else for that job--great point--how high do you need to go?

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I really like the E but as always I could have gone bigger and been happy but where do you draw the line!? I think the E series are a little bit light but I used it for everything around the farm. I had a full scale hay production going at one point and used it for mowing, tedding, raking, and picking up square and round bales. I have also used it to help feed the horses in the winter time and plow snow. My major use now is running a 10' brushhog mowing my property, my granddads, my mother's and some other various neighbors. You have a good point about trying to get out of the cab with the loader arms up. If you went with an open cab that wouldn't be a big deal. I really think that a used machine with over the tire tracks or a dedicated track machine would work. I was also thinking a used machine and not a brand new one.

Have you considered an older small articulated loader then?

 

[GManBart]

A skid steer would run circles around anything else for that job--great point--how high do you need to go?

Exactly what I was thinking....

 

[roadhunter]

You guys have made me take another look at skid steers but I still do not see the advantage. 95% of the skid steers I looked at would not handle a 3,000 + pound load. You can't open the door with a load in the air so that rules out any with a cab. I know there will be times when I need to jump off and move a strap or adjust a log so every time having to go over the bucket seems like it would get old. Especially if the bucket or forks were up you would be crawling under a loaded bucket which in my mind is not something I would do. So essentially you can't really do much with the bucket or forks in the air.

For example if I was bundling a bunch of posts and had a couple of lifting straps I could pull up with a tractor/loader/telahandler and set the forks above the posts. Then step out and wrap the strap around the posts and on the forks. Then walk to the tractor and pull the loader up to tighten the strap before I started putting the steel bands on. I"m not sure how that would even work with a skid steer. I couldn't even set the forks above the posts without crawling under the forks getting out of the machine which is extremely dangerous. Reaching in the machine to pull the forks up to tighten the straps would also be dangerous. I think the access is the issue for getting in and out.

Poor traction overall (wet, snow, ice)and if you run chains they tear the ground up much worse than a loader from my experience.

What am I missing?

 

[boggen]

get a old tractor off of craiglist, or tractorhouse or some such to run peeler. all you need is 3pt hitch and 20HP at PTO. as long as rear wheels turn, starts up and PTO / 3pt hitch is in good shape. double check E-brake / emergency brake is in working order. you don't need mfwd / 4x4, you don't need a cab, you do not need any fancy stuff on tractor. to run peeler. you just need wheels, an engine, and pto with 3pt hitch. lots of old 2WD tractors out there.

then get you a bigger better machine for 3,000 lbs lifting....

 

[TSO]

Check out a Kubota M59. It is a construction machine with excellent specs. It's meant to use as a TLB (tractor loader backhoe) but the backhoe is easily removable and it has a 3pt & PTO. You might even be able to buy it without the backhoe if you don't want or need one. Best part is you can get it with HST which would be preferable for your uses.

Down side is that there's no factory cab option, but there is a nice aftermarket cab option. If there was a factory cab option that worked easily with the backhoe AND 3pt, that's the machine I would have.


Kubota M59 Loader Backhoe

TractorData.com Kubota M59 backhoe-loader tractor information

 

[Grandad4]

Just a suggestion that you might not otherwise consider: Kubota M59...

Kubota Tractors - M59TLB Series

FEL lift cap. at pins almost 4,000 lbs, almost 3,000 lbs on the 3 pt, 59 hp, 46 hp on the pto., 8,400 lbs weight with FEL and backhoe, whiz bang HST setup. Construction type machine that's pricey when new, but some used ones can be found at considerable savings. Slightly larger footprint than typical compact tractor, should handle 3,000 lbs on the FEL with more stability.