Tractor or Skid Steer?

RobertN · Jan 19, 2004

When I used the track loaders, I ran up and down short hills, and found I tended to feel less tippy. On skidsteers, I find wheelies happen all the time too. The trackloaders were always "flat" and stable.

My time was limited in the track-loaders though. I have definitely spent more time in skidsteers, although it is in tens of hours(maybe 20-30 hours). I spent maybe 10 full hours in the two track loaders.

I did not find data recomending backing up with the track loaders(basic manuals attached with units. Nor does the ASV web site mention this.

snowbound · Jan 20, 2004

Sounds good for the track loader; I'm asking because on my place there are trails that cross slopes, turn while crossing slopes, are pretty soft ground. So it's not just the front-to-back stability I'm concerned with, but also side-to-side. I'm guessing that it's a lot less likely to put a track in a rut that tips the tracked loader over than it is to put a tractor wheel in a rut that tips it over.

STRAWLAWN · Feb 8, 2004

I have spent a few hours in a RC-30, and many in a RC-50. The ASV RC-50 is an awesome machine, but at 27K unrealistic for me at present.
The RC-30 is a very capable machine for its size. ASV RC-30 cost 22K new but an ASL300 Polaris (same exact machine) cost 15K so I nought one. Attachments are a bit tricky to find
(outside their own line) for it is in a class by itself in between theCUT/SS range. Even a receiver hitch and aux Hydraulic Pressure relief. I think the Polaris deal is good through Feb 04 or until supplies last. Mine cost 15,200 with VA tax and a universal SS plate. No 32HP CUT can't touch this machine IMHO.

Tags · Feb 9, 2004

Just to chime in...I've always had a compact TLB for my landscape/excavation business and never really liked the skid steers, they seem to really tear the heck outta everything and as soon as it gets muddy, double the mess and half the work.
I just purchased a Cat 287 multi terrain loader after using one for the last month and a half to complete a job that was only accesable by a tracked machine. These things will go more places and lift more than any compact or skid steer out there. I am not putting the compacts or skid steers down by any means, but once you have actually used one of the tracked loaders you'll be blown away at what it can do. As far as doing the work that was proposed it would perform very well for most of it,especially in muddy and sloped conditions, the biggest dilemma would be all your trenching work. I know Cat makes a hoe for their machines,but it is extremely expensive, and I'm not sure if the ASV30 will accept a hoe, but I imagine you could always rent a trenching attachment.
All in all though, for general use and something that you will be keeping for future use around a house, a compact tractor may be the best all around investment in the long run. You could do a large portion of your work with it, and what you can't do you could always rent or hire someone to get the job done. A good compact should be able to do most of what you want and be able to help maintain what you've done and last you a long time to boot.

jmc · Feb 10, 2004

Snowbound,

The Gehl tracked loader manual cautions against running crosswise on a hill because it increases the chance of the track walking off the drive sprocket/rollers. This may be a problem for all tracked loaders since gravity puts side load on the tracks as they roll. How would you like to deal with that out on a trail!

John

keeney · Feb 10, 2004

The pro digging company I used to build my house had Bobcat tracked mini-loaders, Bobcat tracked mini-hoes, Cat full-size track loaders, and Cat full-size track-hoes. They also used a large auger on the mini-hoe to drill some round spot footings for a large porch. No problem with some really sloppy conditions.

The cool thing with the rubber-tracked machines is that they could load/unload them just parked at the side of the street. The steel tracked units had to be unloaded by backing them off of a semi carefully backed into position at the edge of the yard. Needless to say, the steel tracked units ripped up the yard.

The tree trimmers, and sod guys I used had wheeled skid-steers. Not because they liked them, but because they couldn't afford newer tracked mini-loaders. The sod guys had to delay a couple of days because of rain. The tree guy ripped the heck out of the yard.

The concrete guys had a tracked mini-loader, but the weather was good when they were here, so it wasn't put to a test.

The 4wd wheeled man-lift I rented got stuck on a dirt pile.

The 4wd wheeled construction forklift the framers brought got stuck in the mud.

The electric company and gas company both had 4wd wheeled trencher / backhoe units (one vermeer, one Ditch Witch). The gas company guy did most of his meneuvering of the machine when using the backhoe by lifting one end of the machine with the backhoe. The weather was good when they were both here - no traction problems or significant yard damage.

The house mover guys had a wheeled skid steer. It lost traction trying to clear snow from my slightly-uphill driveway.

The tracked Toro dingo did get stuck in the mud at the bottom of a hill while trying to do some tilling during actual heavy rain.

The tracked machines sure looked a lot more stable than anything else.

All the tracked machines and skid-steers were all much quicker at digging, loading, moving and turning than my JD 4100 small compact.

None of the other machines would be any good for mowing grass. Some might be OK for clearing snow.

- Rick

del · Feb 10, 2004

I would ditto the fellow's post about his add-on tracks making
his skid steer a go anywhere machine.

I own 2 CUTs and thought about a skid steer. For my use, rough
ground, slopes etc, my alternate machine (when and if I could
cough up the $$ would be an excavator, and those I can rent
the few times I need one.

I watched a fellow with the add on rubber tracks and he was
taking it places I wouldn't take my smaller CUT unless the
bigger one was standing by. The bigger one I've got out of
everything so far using the hoe and can continue to do so
assuming I haven't reached the earth's molten core.

Who was that said "Give me a place to stand and I'll move the
earth"? Backhoes can get you out most of the time unless
the soup you are stuck in is all you have to pull on!

Watching an experienced operator do a lawn with a skidsteer
is amazing. While the rest of the family was trying to
break their legs skiing, I watched an operator clear snow
on the various walkways in Whistler BC. He spun that thing
around so fast and grabbed snow and dumped snow so fast I
couldn't believe it.

What has always worked for me is to rent one of each thing
you are thinking of buying for a day, or half day. Nothing
says "That's the ticket" more than using it on YOUR property
for some hours.

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jmc · Feb 10, 2004

Del,

Around here, all the guys who sell tracked loaders have discovered that the best way to sell them is to bring them to your site and let you use them as you intend to if you buy one. If you're interested in a new one, you may not have to rent it to try one.

John

del · Feb 10, 2004

Sounds like a smart move by the dealer.

Some CUT dealers don't even have a spot near them to "play"
on a unit, and unless your property matches their lot it
isn't going to say much. Using one for 10 minutes doesn't
say much either.

Only after you've spent a few hours with it alone on your
property do you know if it will work out.

It also helps to be using the "other" choice the same day
or next day to keep everything fresh in your mind.

Of course if you are thinking on upping the size it is hard
to compare things equally.

The first time I rented an excavator it was too much butt-kicking
fun to look at it logically. Big stumps came out of the ground
like they weren't even attached, and if they were, whatever
size roots there were just broke.

I learned one thing during the rental, that I didn't want even
a smaller backhoe again that didn't have a hydraulic thumb
on it.

It actually worked great by pulling up on the roots the
stumps would tend to break into smaller pieces which would
allow them to burn faster.

I saw a guy once with a dozer that had one of those stingers
on the back to split stumps.

Ah the toys...

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Libertine · Feb 11, 2004

Phred:

I also like the fact that you can see the bucket on a skidsteer so well. On my utility tractor you can't see the bucket / forks well. 

The NH 35s, 40s, 45s have very good visibility. I have pallet forks & some other skid-steer implements for my TC40 & visibility is almost (note, I said almost) as good as the skid-steer.

Regarding this discussion, with bobcat compatible fittings for the loader arms, you can still use any skid steer implement PLUS 3pt, PTO driven, belt pulley. The CUT is far and away more flexible. It isn't even close. Put another way, you can do anything with a CUT you can do with a skid-steer plus a great deal more but it doesn't work the other way around. Now, if you need maximum output per hour, for specific tasks, the skid-steer (along with trackhoes, etc. and other more specialized tools) can out produce the CUT all the time.

So, do you want the maximum flexibility in one piece of equipment? Or, are you only going a few things and want the most efficient tool for those few things?

JEH