Tractor recommendations for sidehills

[ErikU]

Hi All,

I'm new here and have been researching compact tractors for maintenance work around my property (mowing and landscaping work). I was set to buy a Kubota B2230 becuase my dad also has one and I'll have access to his implements. However I've started to become concerned about the safety of using it to mow a sidehill that's in the neighborhood of 25-30 degrees. I stumbled on the Power-trac PT 180 and it seems like this might be a better choice. Can anyone with a similar situation advise me on the appropriate machine?

Thanks for your input.

Erik

 

[Bob_Skurka]

For hills, take a serious look at Ventrac and Steiner, the smaller Power Trac units are good tractors but have limited side slope capabilities.

My Ventrac 3000, which is their smallest model, is an astonishingly good mowing tractor and will do "figure 8's" and "u-turns" on slopes that would easily cause a small tractor like the Kubota BX to tumble down the slope. Picture of my Ventrac 3000 with the mower deck

My Ventrac with the front bucket in a hard turn showing how close the wheels get to each other due to the body articulating

Ventrac & New Holland TC24 size comparison


The Ventrac 3000 is a excellent mowing tractor but a marginal tractor at tractoring. I have the front bucket and a front mounted leaf blower, but if you have "real" tractor work to do you'd be better off with one of the 4000 series Ventracs.

Ventrac Web Site

Steiner is also an excellent tractor for slopes, Steiner was founded by the Steiner family, they sold the company and eventually opened up Ventrac after selling Steiner. Some people like the Steiner's better, some like the Ventracs.

Steiner Turf Tractors


You may want to do a search on Ventrac and Steiner here on TBN. These are not too common, but a few folks here own some of them and there are a couple threads and some good information. The Ventrac 3000 and the 4200 have "weight transfer" systems that increase their slope handling abilities. The Ventrac 4100 offers the weight transfer as an option. Most of the Steiner tractors (but not the 230) have the weight transfer system as well. The transfer system uses springs to move the weight of the implement over the front drive wheels such that about 75+% of the implement weight is transferred to the wheels to increase traction on slopes. The smaller & mid side Power Trac units do not offer this, some of the large units do have a transfer system.

The combination of the articulated (bends side to side) body with oscillation (body flexes up & down) keeps all 4 wheels on the ground in rough spots or when a wheel falls down a dip. A normal rigid frame tractor, when one front wheel drives up on a rock, will have either the whole front end go up, or the entire side go up. On a Steiner, Ventrac and to some degree a Power Trac, if one tire goes up on a rock, the other 3 wheels are still on the ground and all 4 wheels are still maintaining traction. The center of gravity is also held lower on all 3 brands of tractors than on conventional rigid frame tractors so they have a much greater inherant stability.

 

[Henro]

30 degrees is pretty steep for side travel...

Those products Bob S. pointed to are likely great for grass cutting but I don't think they are "real" tractors.

Power tract does make some tractors rated for steep slopes, even up to 45 degrees I think.

I don't know if most of us realize how STEEP a 45 degree slope really is. 45 degrees is REALLY steep. Find one and try walking up it and if you don't realize how steep it is, you soon will. I mean a measured, actual, 45 degree slope.

Anyway, there was a tread in the past here about slopes and what tractor to buy (I forget when and by who ) and that poster ended up buying a power track that looked real impressive with its dual wheels front and back.

My BX2200 with front and rear loaded tires and with the MMM on feels real stable on about 20 degree slopes...might be stable on 30 degree slopes...but that PowerTrac with its dual wheels sure looked like the ticket as a working tractor for use on slopes, as far as I could tell.

I bet it cost more than the BX though....

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="blue"> Those products Bob S. pointed to are likely great for grass cutting but I don't think they are "real" tractors.
</font>

Henro, those are some fightin' words /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I will certainly admit that my 3000 is not a good tractor, I tried to point that out.

The 4000 series units, as well as the 430 Steiners are capable of digging holes with their FELs deep enough to bury the tractors, pile the dirt on the end of the hole, climb down into the hole and then straight up on top of the pile. These are pretty darn capable tractors. Now the Power Tracs are better tractors. But I think it has been proven many times that in use they are far more versitile than any brand of conventional tractors for normal tractoring.

As the original post was asking about the little PT180, I tried to direct most of my comments toward the slope capabilities of the smaller PTs. I had a PT422 on the property last summer, for slope work there was no comparison between the Ventrac and the PT, the Ventrac 3000 blew it away. However for heavy tractoring work the PT422 would be a better choice. The PT422 is a 22hp unit, the Ventrac 3000 is a 21 hp unit. The PT180 is more of a mower, has more limited front arm capacity, lift height, etc than the 422.

 

[RalphVa]

A Gravely with dual wheels (but still a walk-behind) is very stable on side hills. You'll need the steering brakes for it on side hills though. You have to be a gorilla otherwise.

You can run a 50" deck with a 12 hp Gravely.

Ralph

 

[Riddler]

Bob, what would someone expect to pay for the Ventrac 3000 with mower?

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I paid $9800 for the tractor, the mower deck and the front scoop. That was a delivered price. I don't know the costs of the individual components, but I suspect the front scoop, with its hydraulics, would probably run about $800. If my guess on the scoop price is about right, that would put the tractor and mower deck at about $9000.

None of the articulated tractors are cheap, but I have to tell you the cut quality is excellent. Even up the steepest grades, the mower deck seems to have full power for cutting. The Power Tracs can't seem to match that performance as they seem to draw more power to the drive wheels. If you want an excellent cutting, and fast mowing machine the Ventrac 3000 is a very good choice. Bear in mind it is capable of doing many MORE tasks that a traditional garden tractor is limited to, but it is not capable of doing all the things a CUT or a PT will do. The front hitch will accomodate a power sweeper, snow blower, mower deck, leaf blower, brush cutter, light or heavy duty front buckets, lawn aerator, etc. The larger Ventracs would be more comparable to a Kubota BX type tractor.

By the way, we used to do much of the mowing around the house with a Cub Cadet that had a slightly larger mowing deck, since switching to the Ventrac, we've knocked at least an hour each week off our mowing chores. The time saving can be attributed to 2 things. #1 is the dramatically added manuverability, #2 is attributed to the slope holding ability. The combined benefits seem to eliminate much of the time wasted by having to pick our course around obsticals and slopes because for the most part we can follow the curves of the landscaping, turn circles around trees and bushes and spin around on most of the slopes.

 

[Riddler]

Bob, thanks for the info. I have several acres of native grass to mow over ground that is free (at the moment) of significant ruts or obstructions, but includes slopes too steep for my Class III CUT. I am striving for a set up that will cut the grass even when it gets high (e.g., 12"-24"), will generate a nice quality of cut if I get the chance to mow before the grass gets too high, won't rut up the ground when it is a little moist or mat down too much grass before the blades have a change to get to it, and feels as secure as possible around the sloped areas. I plan to use it forever, so I supposed quality/longevity and ease of maintanence are issues as well.

I am toying with the idea of paying what it takes to rent or demo a good quality ZTR mower with 5' deck to see how effectively it does the job. My local dealer has a few models with 23-25HP v-twin power plants that look relatively robust. I know that these are classified as "finish" mowers, but the areas I will be mowing are pure grass (no brush, saplings, etc.), and I will probably mow on some of the higher settings that a finish mower offers. I can probably get this type of ZTR for roughly one-half the cost of the Ventrac 3000. That said, if the Ventrac still offers enough clear advantages over a heavy duty ZTR for what I am looking to do, I am willing to consider the added investment.