Tractor squeals under load after getting warm

   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #11  
I routinely work on hot 120 and 240v circuits. I'd -NEVER_ give someone advice to do so even though I've been doing it for decades.

hands are not meant to feel for high pressure leaks in fuel and oil situations. a pinhole small enough to barely leave a vapor trail will show up on cardboard nicely.. and no trip to the emergency room.

as for the hyds school back in 58? that's before osha right? I've got equipment brochurs showing rear mowers on a tractor.. no deck.. no guards.. fal in and chop you up.

that's 50's era safety... soundguy

Chris,
Its no wonder that you've got 24k posts! You reply without reading what was written. As I said, use common sense even with your reply which was a knee jerk reaction to a conclusion of what you thought I wrote. I never said to put your hand in a spraying leak. I said If pressurized oil is leaking it will be evident and you use common sense and not stick parts of your body into the spray and I've trouble shot hydraulic leaks for more years than most have been around hydraulic systems. And what is so dangerous about working with working on hot 120 and 240v circuits. I've done it for years since long before you were born!. Again use common sense. Nowadays so many people lack it.
Jim
 
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #12  
This does bring up the point the navy boys would tell stories of how they knew there was a steam leak of about 1000 psi, but could not see it.They learned by taking a broom stick to pass around piping or what ever, and if part of it fell on the floor, they knew about where the leak was at. I was told if you tried running your hand by it, it would cut your hand off and cotterize it all at the same time. I am going to take there word for it.
 
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #13  
Chris,
You reply without reading what was written.

I read what you wrote.. you did not read what I wrote.

a high pressure pin hole leak can barely leave a vapor trail.. IE.. hard to see.. but enough to do skin damage.. however.. a piece of cardboard will find it as the oil accumulates for a second.

By the way.. here's a pic of 50's era safety thinking :)

At this point I'll bow out of the conversation...
 

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   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #14  
Luke, your transmission has a high pressure relief valve that lets the transmission stall if the internal pressures get too high. This is what you feel and hear when you have your HST in too high a range and depress the pedal. I'm not sure, but I think your tractor has three ranges and neutral. Did you mention what range you are in when your hear the "squealing"? Does the squealing occur only in the high range, and does it occur in reverse as well as forward? If you can shift to the low range and your tractor has enough pull for your job, it might just be that you need to do work in a lower range when your oil heats up.

My feeling after many hours on a HST tractor is that you can always get more pull out of a cold HST than a hot one. When fluid become hot and thins out, the transmission will stall somewhat easier than when the fluid is cold. In situations where you are in a high range and there is less flow and more torque required, this is where a small leak in a relief valve will be the most noticeable, whether it is normal relief valve lifting or a small abnormal leak.

Your transmission diagram is attached below. Your transmission has a "charge" pump (items 20, 21, 22) that takes fluid from the reservoir and feeds it at low pressure to the main HST. This pump just ensures that the HST does not cavitate under heavy pumping. Inside your HST, there is a relief valve (item 7) that opens to relieve the high pressures. I beleive it works in conjunction with the check valves (items 4, 5, 6). There is one check valve for forward and another for reverse. Any of these valves or a worn internal pump could be the reason for HST stalling when it gets hot.

Normally, check valves and high pressure relief valves are removable from outside the tractor transmission casing. HST transmissions are normally mounted inside the running gear of a tractor with access to the valves being round holes visible on the sides of the outside casing. I'm not suggesting that you start pulling valves without knowing what you are doing, but rather that the valves can be inspected and pressure tests can be done at a dealer's service department without tearing your tractor apart. They can analyze your HST's performance and let you know if there is a need for service. That's what I would suggest since you are not an HST expert and could easily get yourself in over your head on a job like this. I just want you to have a good outcome and grasp of what you need to do.:)

One other thing... If you have an HST cooler in front of your normal radiator, make sure it is clean and able to cool the oil to the best of its ability. Your oil should be warm to hot. My HST oil reservoir which is the same as my main hydraulic reservoir will get to 150 to 180 degrees in normal heavy summer use. I use a handheld IR thermometer to measure the temperatures on my tractor.
 

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   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #15  
Luke,

Jinman's correct that it could be relief valve squeal....and that can be remedied from outside housing......but It's possible that the Hydro/trans needs to be rebuilt.....the breakdown from Jinman is just like the KYB I rebuilt few months ago....if you decide to pull it and rebuild it you need to be pretty good mechanical (or a BIL or somebody)...or you'll need to find someone in your area with some knowledge of precision lapping on piston pumps....not your typical "Leak Fixer Guy" but somebody with a good eye to check wear on valve plates, piston shoes, rotation group and charge pump parts....

A lot of times dirty oil or trashed internal bearings can set off a chain of events internally to "Wear out" precision surfaces that can be lapped, cleaned resealed and put back into service...

be prepared to do ultra clean work if you expect great results!!

If you do go ahead with that myself or others here can talk you thru it but you will have to be diligent to be clean and priming case ports are essential to proper start-up......once again don't try this if you're not use to doing this type of work because failure could be more costly than just getting a reman unit....
 
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #16  
BTW Jinman,

Excellent breakdown sheet:thumbsup:, where'd you get that from

Bill
 
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #17  
BTW Jinman,

Excellent breakdown sheet:thumbsup:, where'd you get that from

Bill

Bill, you and I are sure "pullin' the same train." Your advice is spot on about overhaul. I want to make sure Luke needs overhaul and this is not a case of using the improper range and/or depressing the HST pedal like an accelerater pedal. If he is confident that his transmission is failing, I think pressure testing could identify just how severe a problem he has.

The diagram I posted is from messicks.com. Messicks is a terrific source for parts diagrams and pricing info on repair parts. For example, the relief valve for Luke's transmission is about $350 if I remember correctly from this morning when I saved and posted the diagram. When you go to messicks, you can select NH, Case, or Kubota and type your model number into a box. I'm not sure about Kubota, but the NH list will allow you to select the tractor and then a list of system diagrams will appear. These are from the IPC for the various systems. Choose a specific diagram and a list of parts will appear on the right with a description, availability, and stocking level. Messicks is a terrific source for info and parts. I've found their before-shipping prices to be the best around and they quickly ship your parts to your door. Nice!
 
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #18  
Jim,

Wow, gotta check out Messicks.com tonite....I love breakdown sheets like these cuz the local dealers around these parts hold on to their "Interests" very tightly.....I'm just a repair guy taking work away from them (Until they need something from me:laughing::laughing:...

One of the problems Luke will have with testing on his machine is the Hydro Pump and Motor are one unit....(Cannot run flow meters between components to test).....may have to tear down anyways.....hopefully not but when do you just give up playing and get down to business and dig in...

The unit we rebuilt we changed valve plates (#15 & #15a), lapped barrels,pistons,new bearings, seal kit and go....:thumbsup:

Customer brought it in as basket case and saw nothing wrong with the wear on the critical surfaces....after we were thru it was back to climbing again...his unit had the same symptoms as Luke.....

Best would be to find proper test procedures as you suggested...I'm sure there must be ports to check charge, case and high pressure before he gets too deep...

We have an Exmark Mower in our shop right now with shot hyd system (thats what happens at 900 hrs when you don't change oil and filters) He needs complete OVH on every component....at least Luke has one component to contend with....
 
   / Tractor squeals under load after getting warm #20  
now you wonder why things like osha came into existance....

30's thru 60's era technology was good and solid mechanically speaking.. but had lots of open flywheels, belts, chain and gears.. and well as you can see.. Blades!

soundguy
 

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