showcattle
Gold Member
I agree with Gary. I've mowed steep banks with a sicklebar mower. I feel much more comfortable with it on the uphill side.
Tractor tipping point
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I agree with Gary. I've mowed steep banks with a sicklebar mower. I feel much more comfortable with it on the uphill side.
k0ua
Epic Contributor
I have side hilled a slope at 30 degrees, and it really really sucked. Not recommended at all. I have seen the Mo. Highway Department boys do worse. but their tractors are set up for it. Really wide wheel widths with smaller wheels/tires for a lower center of gravity.
One of the things that gets newby's in trouble is failure to alway keep your Front End Loader as low as possible. I have seen so many youtube vid's of newby's running around with a loaded bucket up high. Absolutely never do that. When you load your FEL bucket lower it as much as possible when you are traveling. I have seen dozens of pictures of rollovers pictures here on TBN, and every one of them had the FEL bucket up high. The tell tale sign of a mistake. Keep the shiny side up, and happy tractoring.
One of the things that gets newby's in trouble is failure to alway keep your Front End Loader as low as possible. I have seen so many youtube vid's of newby's running around with a loaded bucket up high. Absolutely never do that. When you load your FEL bucket lower it as much as possible when you are traveling. I have seen dozens of pictures of rollovers pictures here on TBN, and every one of them had the FEL bucket up high. The tell tale sign of a mistake. Keep the shiny side up, and happy tractoring.
CobyRupert
Super Member
View attachment Tractor Overturn Hazards 202[1].pdf
Here's a good brochure on overturn hazards.
Basically, when the tractor's (or any object's) center of gravity (COG) extends vertically over the point of ground contact, it's tipping over.
So...
1) Lower (or keep as low as possible) the COG. (loaded tires do this).
2) Widen the ground contact points (widen tires).
It can be really hard to "eyeball" were a tractors COG is, and it can vary a lot with a dynamic (moving) FEL or attachment. For most tractors, one would guess its around rear axle height.
Here's a good brochure on overturn hazards.
Basically, when the tractor's (or any object's) center of gravity (COG) extends vertically over the point of ground contact, it's tipping over.
So...
1) Lower (or keep as low as possible) the COG. (loaded tires do this).
2) Widen the ground contact points (widen tires).
It can be really hard to "eyeball" were a tractors COG is, and it can vary a lot with a dynamic (moving) FEL or attachment. For most tractors, one would guess its around rear axle height.
I don't think it's been mentioned yet - one thing to bear in mind is that a tractor's front axle is just on a pivot - no suspension - so the only thing resisting tipover on a side hill is the rear wheels. That's why hitting a little dip or hole with the downhill side rear tire can very suddenly flip you.
I have had the FEL bucket (carried very low, as in just skimming the ground) prevent a tipover before.
I have had the FEL bucket (carried very low, as in just skimming the ground) prevent a tipover before.
kthompson
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On the point of which side to carry such as a side mount mower...if I am wrong am sorry...I will stick with load on lower side on this reason, if load in on the uphill side and it starts tipping as the side load gets higher it will help roll you down hill more so than just the tractor by itself. I believe you will find it will speed up the roll as that weight moves higher up. Now I may be wrong there. But this I am 100% sure of, if the cutter's weight is the tip reason and it is on the down hill side and not high in the air as soon as it hits the ground the tipping probably will stop. If on the uphill side and it begins to roll it will roll.
Want to try this in a safe manner, if you have an excavator load it to the max, with bucket run all the way out over one end of it, but only say a foot off the ground and your excavator setting on level ground, slowly rotate the excavator. As you rotate to the side you probably will find the machine wanting to tip and it may very well tip but the second the bucket hits the ground it stops. Why? Because the weight causing the tip was removed from the machine and transferred to the ground. DO NOT DO THIS but take that same load and raise it as high as you can and run same test. Because you have the load so high when it begins to tip the machine probably has so much energy behind the tipping it will most likely continue the tipping action. Ok just go on youtube and watch them. If you could find a video of how a company test the tipping of a crane made to tote a load you will easy see this, same thing with heavy loaded FEL and bucket in the air and you hit the brakes. That is why even here keeping the load low is mention over and over. I worked for a crane manufacture for 10 years, in that time frame worked in many areas but one job I did on occasion was to test load the machines. We loaded them like 110% of stated capacity and then had to run the boom out to where the load tipped the machine. We were trained to keep the load like a 1 foot off the ground at all times I'm the tip test. It never failed when the weight hit the ground the tipping stopped. Now if it was say 50 feet in the air, I would bet the machine rolled.
I will agree if you have a light weight piece of equipment on the down hill side compared to the weight of the tractor and it begins to roll the equipment may be weak enough it can fold up. But that is a tip caused not be the equipment but tractor or hole.
One other crazy reason to me if you are going to run a cutter high in the air I rather have it on the downhill side is I rather have my tractor roll onto it than it fall on tractor with me in or on it. Did not go back to my post but if I did not mention counter weight for down hill implement meant to. If you place cutter on uphill side do you counter weight or not?
I am far from perfect, if anyone disagrees would like to know what is it based upon. kt
Want to try this in a safe manner, if you have an excavator load it to the max, with bucket run all the way out over one end of it, but only say a foot off the ground and your excavator setting on level ground, slowly rotate the excavator. As you rotate to the side you probably will find the machine wanting to tip and it may very well tip but the second the bucket hits the ground it stops. Why? Because the weight causing the tip was removed from the machine and transferred to the ground. DO NOT DO THIS but take that same load and raise it as high as you can and run same test. Because you have the load so high when it begins to tip the machine probably has so much energy behind the tipping it will most likely continue the tipping action. Ok just go on youtube and watch them. If you could find a video of how a company test the tipping of a crane made to tote a load you will easy see this, same thing with heavy loaded FEL and bucket in the air and you hit the brakes. That is why even here keeping the load low is mention over and over. I worked for a crane manufacture for 10 years, in that time frame worked in many areas but one job I did on occasion was to test load the machines. We loaded them like 110% of stated capacity and then had to run the boom out to where the load tipped the machine. We were trained to keep the load like a 1 foot off the ground at all times I'm the tip test. It never failed when the weight hit the ground the tipping stopped. Now if it was say 50 feet in the air, I would bet the machine rolled.
I will agree if you have a light weight piece of equipment on the down hill side compared to the weight of the tractor and it begins to roll the equipment may be weak enough it can fold up. But that is a tip caused not be the equipment but tractor or hole.
One other crazy reason to me if you are going to run a cutter high in the air I rather have it on the downhill side is I rather have my tractor roll onto it than it fall on tractor with me in or on it. Did not go back to my post but if I did not mention counter weight for down hill implement meant to. If you place cutter on uphill side do you counter weight or not?
I am far from perfect, if anyone disagrees would like to know what is it based upon. kt
kthompson
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To me what is right is more important than being right: I have done a good bit of look at implements on uphill or down hill side of tractor and was shocked to see that sites such as OHSA never mentioned implements. Bu did find two sites, one Liberty Mutual and think the other is Iowa's site that say to keep the implement on the uphill side of the tractor. So I will say based upon this info I am wrong on having it on the down hill side.
We do not have natural long slopes and the slopes I have run any implement on has always been a side mount cutter with it just off the ground and for that being on the lower side has worked well. Matter of fact it has to be on the low side for my use for all I cut on slopes are ditches or pond banks and hard to put the tractor in the pond or ditch and cutter to be on the high side.
I thank those who took me to task on this..but still do the tip test as I explained it for that may help prevent a major roll over for you. kt
We do not have natural long slopes and the slopes I have run any implement on has always been a side mount cutter with it just off the ground and for that being on the lower side has worked well. Matter of fact it has to be on the low side for my use for all I cut on slopes are ditches or pond banks and hard to put the tractor in the pond or ditch and cutter to be on the high side.
I thank those who took me to task on this..but still do the tip test as I explained it for that may help prevent a major roll over for you. kt
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kthompson
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Well have done a little video looking and think you may find this interesting: please note this is a test of a tractor not moving, making no turns, no operator and it looks to be widen wheel base and is a low sitting tractor.
Very interesting. Thanks for finding it, KT.
It has verrrry wide tires and low center of gravity. Looks like it is built for side hill operation.
Note also that the front axle is fixed to the engine, rather than having the engine mounted on a pivot point on top of the axle. This makes it more stable since the pivot point becomes the outside of the very wide front tires instead of being in the center line of the tractor. But even so, with the engine being higher than the rest of the mass, the front tips first.
It has verrrry wide tires and low center of gravity. Looks like it is built for side hill operation.
Note also that the front axle is fixed to the engine, rather than having the engine mounted on a pivot point on top of the axle. This makes it more stable since the pivot point becomes the outside of the very wide front tires instead of being in the center line of the tractor. But even so, with the engine being higher than the rest of the mass, the front tips first.
RaydaKub
Veteran Member
Hi KT,
I appreciate your input. We learn from each other; that's what these forums are all about. I'll take a stab at trying to explain why I believe you are incorrect. As I understand your excavator example above, you seem to equate the lift height of the boom with being on the uphill side. If the hill were a perfect ramp, the bucket would be just skimming the ground whether it were on the uphill side or downhill side. This is not the same as raising the bucket in the air.
The fulcrum of a roll will always be the outside of the track (or rear tire) on the downhill side. Let's assume for the moment that you can't add any weight outside of the width of the machine. If the uphill side of the machine lifts, how do you hold it down? You add weight up hill from the fulcrum but as low as possible. This is why loaded tires are so effective. Now lift that restriction on width. Adding weight outside of the lower side won't hold down the upper wheel. Adding weight outside the upper wheel will hold it down even better than on the wheel itself.
Excavators have extremely strong booms and hydraulics, many to the point that they could do a "handstand" if they had a hand instead of a bucket. This leverage will surely stop a roll as you have noted, but it is because of the leverage, not the cancelation of the weight outside. Tractors and side-mounted implements do not have this leverage. So their downhill-side weight can only serve to lift the uphill side to cause the roll sooner.
Now, in most situations, it isn't the weight that is the issue. It is the uneven application of forces that gives the weight momentum, such as dropping the rear wheel into a hole or hitting a bump on the uphill side. Static analysis will only describe the situation so far. If the tractor were to start a roll, it is doubtful in my opinion that setting that weight down will stop it. Possible, but not as likely.
kthompson
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This has become very interesting to me. I have had no real major slope experience as our ground is without hills and such.
I understand better the cog with an implement on uphill or downhill how it can affect it but I do have a question: lets take a backhoe with outriggers. (Not saying this is proper operation but best way to ask my question.) You lower the downhill outrigger where it is say 6 inches off the ground. Now do you use the low side tire to determine the cog or do you use the outrigger to determine it? Is the outrigger not of benefit to help stop a rollover? Or would running out the uphill outrigger the same amount be of greater value?
Honesty have hard time understanding cutters that are so flimsy they would offer no benefit, on the side mount cutters whether bolted to the tractor or 3pth, those are massive strong implements or at least all I have ever seen. Many are built like outriggers for the weight of the cutter head hanging out there several feet is huge. Do understand sickle mowers are NOT built this way but here have never seen one cutting ditches or pond banks. Then we have a local plant that builds some great side mount hyd cutters. I have no idea what other implement you would need on steep slope. kt
I understand better the cog with an implement on uphill or downhill how it can affect it but I do have a question: lets take a backhoe with outriggers. (Not saying this is proper operation but best way to ask my question.) You lower the downhill outrigger where it is say 6 inches off the ground. Now do you use the low side tire to determine the cog or do you use the outrigger to determine it? Is the outrigger not of benefit to help stop a rollover? Or would running out the uphill outrigger the same amount be of greater value?
Honesty have hard time understanding cutters that are so flimsy they would offer no benefit, on the side mount cutters whether bolted to the tractor or 3pth, those are massive strong implements or at least all I have ever seen. Many are built like outriggers for the weight of the cutter head hanging out there several feet is huge. Do understand sickle mowers are NOT built this way but here have never seen one cutting ditches or pond banks. Then we have a local plant that builds some great side mount hyd cutters. I have no idea what other implement you would need on steep slope. kt