Tractor Weight and PTO Lift

[CompShooter]

How important is tractor weight and PTO lift capacity. Here is what I intend to do with my new tractor during the first year as a percentage of time...

5% snow removal on a 600 foot driveway
20% spreading stone on the above driveway
20% spreading top soil on about 1 acre
40% trenching and moving the Earth
15% driving around moving things around having fun but looking like I'm working

The second year will bring a new attachment or two and different jobs...

5% snow removal on a 600 foot driveway
20% build a new 150 foot driveway
10% spread stones on that new driveway
20% mow about 8-10 acres of field with a bush hog
15% scrape a new pad for the hunting trailers to be moved onto
15% move more stones onto that pad
5% move the trailers about 100 through the field onto the pad
10% use some kind of "plotmaster" attachment to plant food plots for the deer and turkeys on about 2 acres of fields.


Of course the above jobs are subject to change and I'm sure there will be a million more items to add to the list once I get going.

But right now I am considering the Kubota B7800, Mahindra 3215, Kioti CK30 and the Branson 3510i. I only sat on the Mahindra and Branson, liked them both. But for some strange reason I really like the color orange. And I want an excuse to buy the Kubota.

The concern I have is that it is the lightest and has the least PTO lift capacity, 1741 lbs in weight and 1655 lbs at the PTO.

The other tractors are at least 500 lbs heavier and have a better PTO lift at the point. Will this matter for what I plan to do with it in the above jobs?

Just to note, the above weight is just of the tractor. I plan to buy it with a loader and back hoe.

 

[coasterez]

For digging and ground engagement, weight is just about everything. Else it's difficult to put the power to the ground. Lighter tractors I tested (including the 7800) tend to get tossed around a bit by backhoes too.

The more lift the better, if if you don't need it. Compare hydraulic pumping capacities too. This will tell you a thing or 2 about backhoe performance.

A nice wide stance also really helps with stability when doing ground work or heavy loader stuff. In my opinion, all the other brands beat the bota for ground engaging work. Though the bota will be easier on your lawn and is perhaps the "better" mower. However, when you considered dealer support and long term track record, the bota is hard to beat such that resale and long term parts availability might sway you to buy big orange.

I went with the Kioti because it is the heaviest, and was the "best" for digging ( and a lot more tractor for similar $). Though, I really liked the Bransons too - great loaders and a really wide stance. It was just a bit too big for me. It appears you might get the most for your money from Mahindra from what I've been reading. I haven't used one. But, reports are very positive. Specs are very good.

JD, Case, and TYM are others you might consider. I think the TYM T273 is very comparable to the 7800, and a very nimble piece of equipment too.

 

[john_bud]

Comp,

Your tasks don't really demand a big tractor. The Bota will do all you have listed and without much effort. PTO lift specs are pretty much a marketing boondoggle. The Bota can lift what, 1700#? How many implements that weigh 1700, 1200 or even 800# do you think are appropriate for any tractor in that class? (about none is the correct answer by the way). A good 500 -650# 54" - 60" box blade and a good 350# 6' back blade will do all of the leveling and spreading chores listed. A King Kutter 5' cutter will do well and not break the bank.

I wouldn't waste money on a plotmaster. Got to a few auctions and get an old 5' disc for a couple hundred bucks an use that. Plotmasters are for people that have ATV's and not tractors. You're about to be a cut above the ATV only crowd! (Welcome)


The comments on Backhoe's and weight are however, 100% spot on. I think the 7800 can handle a 7 - 7 1/2 foot hoe pretty well, but not much more. Then again, if you really want to go deep you need a much much larger tractor!

Check them all out and tell us what YOU like best.

Merry Christmas!

jb

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I'm not sure what size your overall land is, but if you are bushogging 8-10 acres then I would go for the most PTO horsepower I could get and weight is not a bad thing there either. I dislike the Branson tractors, find a lot of faults with their designs, but of your choices listed it is the only one I could recommend. The Branson has more PTO HP than any of your other choices, you could run a 6' cutter with that machine, but you'd be limited to a 5' cutter with the other machines. That may not seem like much, but that one extra foot of cutter deck will save you a lot of time over many years of mowing that field.

As for the other jobs, any of the tractors would likely do them, but the slightly larger size of the Branson will probably be a bit of help.

The Kubota you are looking at is too light and small. If you want to stay with a budget tractor, consider the L3400, it is more comparable to the Mahindra and the Branson, but all comparision are rough!

DISCLAIMER I use a New Holland TC24 and a Kubota B2910

 

[daTeacha]

You owe it to yourself to sit on a Case or New Holland in the 30 hp range. The seats and ergonomics just might make you like red or blue better than orange. It was a big part of my decision, despite starting out thinking I wanted a new Kubota.

 

[3RRL]

I could not have said it any better than these guys...
...For digging and ground engagement, weight is just about everything.

...then I would go for the most PTO horsepower I could get and weight is not a bad thing there either.

I might add everything you listed requires traction. The more weight, the better your chances of getting the power to the ground. I too would go for the most PTO horsepower and weight available in the tractor categories you are looking.

 

[flusher]

The concern I have is that it is the lightest and has the least PTO lift capacity, 1741 lbs in weight and 1655 lbs at the PTO.

The other tractors are at least 500 lbs heavier and have a better PTO lift at the point. Will this matter for what I plan to do with it in the above jobs?

Just to note, the above weight is just of the tractor. I plan to buy it with a loader and back hoe.

The PTO doesn't have lift capacity. YOu mean the lift capacity of the 3-point hitch (3pt). The 7800 has 1655 lb lift capacity at the ends of 3pt lower arms and 1300 lb lift 24 inches aft of the arms. This should be plenty to handle a 5-ft wide box blade, 5-ft rotary mower (brush hog), etc.

I have a B7510HST that has 1356 lb and 1058 lb at the corresponding points of its 3pt. It does just fine with 4-ft wide implements. In fact I add about 360 lb of concrete weight to my 4-ft King Kutter box blade that weighs about 250 lb to get it to bite better.

From your task list it looks like you'll need a front end loader (FEL) and possibly a backhoe for trenching. If that's the case you might want to look at something like the BX series.

My Bota has 4WD and a hydrostatic transmission. Makes FEL work a breeze.

The box blade and FEL are nice for excavating work for paver block sidewalks, etc.

 

[coasterez]

Bob, as usual offers some good advice. However, I think there are guys running 6' cutters behind their CK30's, for one. They claim to get good performance. Don't know for the others. I suspect that 30 hp is marginal; in this size, HST vs. gears might make a big difference in how it performs. However, for your duties and scale, I'd think the Kioti DK35 (or similar like the Branson) would be a bit more appropriate, and would ensure that you did not buy too small.

And the things that Bob dislikes about the Branson's may or may not be the same for you. A lot of this "design" stuff is subjective. For example, I don't care for the location of the loader joystick on the Bransons. But, I'm not sure that would be a deciding factor by itself. The reputation of their loaders and their wide stance make them very attractive (to me). I also like the headlight locations on the Bransons - better when loader is in transport position. Others hate the headlights.


It's also nice to run a loader without a rear implement to get in the way. How do you do this? Start with a HEAVY tractor and add fluid to the rear tires. A light tractor just won't operate in this manner nearly as well. And 300 - 400 lbs hanging on the back isn't enough by itself to offset 1000 lbs or more hanging out front, over your head, and maybe shifting around too.

Now, on the 3pt lift capacity. Maybe you don't need it now. Maybe you never will. But, what about when you go to sell it and the guy wants to put a forklift on the back, or move monster bales of hay? Or maybe you find later on that you would like a fork lift implement for your self. Further, if the lift capacity of a tractor is significantly higher, then it probably is also using a stronger 3pt system as a whole, and when you consider the lateral pressures applied to the 3pt arms by boxblades, plows, and the like, you'd want that system to be as strong as possible.

What it really means is that a Tractor is a very personal choice. So, the only way you'll know is to test them all, and then it will be a much easier choice for you. Just don't make the mistake of buying too small. You'll regret it, just like I did. Otherwise, you'll love the decision you make. Just like the rest of us.

 

[CompShooter]

Thanks for all the great replies!

I am just getting started in this purchase deal. I am planning my purchase around April or May. So at this point I am trying to determine my needs and wants.

Also, I am a believer of doing it right the first time. I have read a few stories on this site about guys who saved a few bucks bought too small and are on their second or third tractor by now.

I want to avoid that if possible. I figure I will have about $15 grand to play with by May and I don't mind financing maybe 10 more. So with that money I want to get the best fit tractor I can afford. I know I won't be able to afford everything I want right away but I would like to get the tractor, FEL and BH. The attachments can come once a year with tax returns.

I have a 3 acre home site, but most of the work listed above will be for a 53 acre hunting parcel that's in my family. Of that 8-10 acres are fields they get mowed once a year as it stands. I may mow them more frequently if I had my own tractor though.

So to summarize your comments...

#1) Weight is a good thing, get the heaviest
#2) PTO HP isn't bad either
#3) 3ph lift capacity is a gimmick but may indicate stronger components

One more question, I don't mind driving a manual but what is the real difference between HST and geat besides the fact that one is an automatic and one manual?

Which one would be better for the jobs I originally listed?

Thanks again!

 

[jbrumberg]

CompShooter:
I want to apologize for all of us that no one welcomed you-so welcome to TBN !. I have seen no entries that I would disagree with at this point. I would add when I look at your time use percentages I see roughly 45%+ of your entended use would benefit from a FEL so I would recommend HST for its ease of operation and "fine tractor control" (I had a geared tractor and now I have HST. There have been "trade offs", but I prefer HST). I also agree that dealer "feel" is just as important as tractor "feel". A good dealership will save you money in the long run. You indicate that you have some time to figure out what you really want. I suggest that you try the various tractor selector program software available in several of the major brand websites. I know that JD and NH have tractor needs assessment programs. They appear "loaded" for FEL lift input information rather than the other input criteria. I will warn you that we at TBN are more than willing to help you spend your money, provide you with the necessary "justifications" for tractor and attachment acquisition, and that there are a lot of
"HP junkies" in TBN land. Keep asking and we will be answering. Hang in there- Jay