Tractors, Mini-TLBs, and Life

RonL · Jan 5, 2002

MChalkley

I originally came upon TractorByNet by happenstance ( serendipity? ) and was immediately taken by it. I have been online every day possible since. The people here comport themselves with an enormous amount of class and are more than willing to share their knowledge, opinions, and experiences. I have learned much and have enjoyed the shared experiences. I applaud your efforts to explore new possibilities. That said I will throw in my opinions. Dirt can be moved with a spoon ( which I was wont to do as a child) and it can moved with a Cat D11. Most of us on this board are somewhere in between. Compact utility tractors and tractors as a whole have evolved as agrarian instruments/implements. As such they are extremely usefull in farm settings for a multitude of purposes. The fact that there are a number of implements available that fit standard hitches and pto's makes them so. However, if you are involved in construction and earth moving the TLB has evolved as the general purpose machine. Now we must look at the " Jack of all trades, master of none syndrome". There is NO machine that does every single task as well as a task specific machine , or in fact does every single task. Because each of us has specific needs and desires each of us needs to detemine which machine will fulfill our needs and desires with AVAILABLE implements.
Because I am starting with 12 acres of wooded land on top of a mountain I felt that for MY purposes A full size TLB was the right choice. I need to put in perimiter drains, dig out foundations, install septic systems, crane in the septic tank, dig water lines, rebuild stone walls, fork deliveries off of delivery trucks, and a number of other things. However, I expect to bring in a dozer for a day in the beginning. A days worth of dozer work will probably save one or two weeks worth of TLB work. After everything is built and landscaped I don't think I'll be using the Cat to mow the lawn. I'll be looking for something suitable at the time.
I'm not a fan of the liberal clan but there's a quote by Robert Kennedy that I like. I must paraphrase it because its 6:00 O'clock inthe morning ( please jump in and correct me ). It goes something like this: " Some look at what is and ask why? Some look at what could be and ask, why not?"
MChalkley, best of luck on your quest!
Peace,

RonL

P.S. I'm going to watch "Funny Farm" for the thirteenth time.

Charlie_Iliff · Jan 5, 2002

Re: Micro TL w/o B, PT425

Mossroad: The PT deserves a new category with a string of initials in the official glossary.
Your videos of the little PT prove that even a micro sized articulated loader (golf cart?) does a lot of things more easily and better than a compact tractor, although on a smaller scale than Mark's EF5. It is not suited to some ag uses, although most farms need a lot of mowing, at which it is superb. Maybe Mark's thread should really pose the question: "If you can have only one machine, which one best suits your needs?" For most of us, the Power Trac may be closer than either a compact tractor or the EF5. It wouldn't do a lot of Cowboy Doc's jobs, or some of mine and a lot of Mark's, but I'll bet if anyone on the TLB has one, it is used - a lot, and not set off in a corner.
In the spring, challenge Mark to a grass mowing contest. You'll win hands down if you don't let him claim that Virginia grass contains 4" trees that require his Brush Brute and Ammbusher. (If any compacts towing batwings are around, go ahead and let them in the competition -- just make sure a lot of the mowing is in tight quarters.)

TWINKLE_TOES · Jan 5, 2002

Charlie,

Right up front, I'd like to admit that many of my purchases have been wrong 
I suspect if I had a backhoe, its use would be seldom, but I really want one.
Hummm... a cyber twin??? I bought the back hoe for just that reason, because I wanted one. I have found it much like the front loader, the list of things that it can do just keeps getting longer. Cleaning gutters, washing windows, just kidding/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I have no regrets for the decision to go for the TLB. Earth Force, Kubota, Deere, New Holland makes no difference to me as long as a hoe is attached.
Al

MChalkley · Jan 5, 2002

Charlie - I agree that the PowerTrac may come closer to meeting the needs of most TBNers than the EarthForce machines. In fact, I think they come closer than CUTs do, too. As for the 4-in-1 hydraulics, there's no reason it shouldn't work exactly the way you want it to.

My intent in starting this discussion was to evoke, not provoke. I don't consider a new viewpoint presented by someone else as a challenge to my intelligence (or manhood, or logical thinking ability, or place in society, or whatever is supposedly important for inner peace, stability, and security...), so I tend not to even consider the possibility that it might be viewed that way by others. At any rate, I've definitely stirred the waters a bit.

I'm going to wander into philosophical territory here, but first, a disclaimer: I'm not talking about anybody in specific, only in generalities - I'm not accusing anyone of anything, only talking about concepts. I've long had a suspicion, which I mostly keep to myself (but will throw out here to see what further trouble I can get myself into /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif), that what separates "great" individuals from "ordinary" ones is the ability to be open-minded and imaginative. Thus, the high priority I place on those qualities, both in trying to cultivate them, and in looking for them in others. For example, with regard to synthetic oils, to pick a controversial subject, I think most people decide they're "fer 'em or agin 'em" at some point in life (for most, I suspect it's between the ages of 2 and 4 /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif) for reasons generally unknown, and almost never remembered, and nothing, but nothing, will ever make a difference in their thinking. These, in short, are "ordinary" people. Not because they like or don't like synthetics, but because they don't have a reason for liking them or not liking them. They have a strong opinion based upon nothing. Funny thing is, they don't realize that they're in that situation. They either believe they're open-minded, or don't even consider the possibility that they might not be. Thus the need for constant-reexamination of one's thinking.

To put the above in context, in starting this discussion, I was only doing out loud for everyone here on TBN the same sort of thing I do to myself all the time. If it sounds like I challenged everyone to get out of a rut, and be open-minded, it's because I do it to myself all the time, and I don't take the slightest bit of offense at myself for doing it. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif So, that's the spirit in which it was intended - as a stimulus to thinking. If you don't need one, please ignore me - I need them myself all the time.

No, I don't think the EarthForce machines are best for everyone here. Nor do I think PowerTracs are. And neither, by the way, are CUTs, regardless of color. But there's a lot more overlap between them than most realize, I think, and that's one of the things I was trying to bring out. And, while I suspect that many think EarthForce machines are very mission-specific, to some extent because of lack of exposure, in reality they are just as versatile as the others. And who better to expose everyone to them than somebody who traded a very fine specimen of a CUT for one? I didn't do it because I didn't like the Kubota, that's for sure. I did it because it wasn't versatile enough. But that doesn't mean it isn't versatile enough for somebody else. I don't mow any grass - bushhogging, yes, mowing, no. That automatically makes my needs different from 75% or so of TBNers, I suspect. I don't do any plowing. Tilling, yes, plowing, no. That makes my needs different from some, too. Nevertheless, I'd contend I use my equipment for just as many different types of jobs as anybody, and the EarthForce machines are the most versatile there are for the subset of tasks I need to do. That means they probably are for another couple of folks somewhere in the world, too, I suspect.

Again, all I'm saying is the same thing I say to myself all the time: Think about it. If you have an opinion, know why, and know that you've considered all the possibilities you can find first. And never, but never, fail to keep your eyes open to new possibilities. Otherwise, your opinion is useless to anyone but yourself. (That's not necessarily a bad thing, of course, just as long as you realize it and keep it to yourself. I again repeat the example that I remind myself of all the time: The guy who continues to take the long way to work for 10 years after a new highway has been put in, just because he doesn't like change, isn't qualified to give directions.)

MChalkley · Jan 5, 2002

Dan - My whole point was that EarthForce machines aren't just "dirt moving" machines. That they're just as versatile as CUTs, though not, obviously, best at all the same things. And that they belong in "general" tractor discussions, whatever that is, not just in the construction equipment group, just as much as CUTs do, because the needs of "general" tractor owners are so varied.

I see I haven't convinced you. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif That's ok with me - I'm not making hash marks on the side of my EarthForce to count "converts". /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif I'm just throwing facts out - what you do with them and how relevant they are to your situation can obviously only be determined by you.

HR_Mutt · Jan 5, 2002

MChalkley
I get a big kick out of reading your adventures/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif.I know I'm open-minded enough to know I want one, and the projects to do with it. I got to be realistic also, so I'll just look at the pics,read the stories,get a few laughs and go mow.
/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
regards
Mutt

MossRoad · Jan 5, 2002

Thanks!. Well, that was intersting reading. IMHO that was WTMI

Is this list compiled in totallity anywhere? I would like to add it to my favorite threads(which is a great feature, BTW).

MossRoad · Jan 5, 2002

Re: Micro TL w/o B, PT425

Would that be a TGC, LGC or TLGC or mini TLGC?

MChalkley · Jan 5, 2002

Mutt,

I get a big kick out of reading your adventures ... so I'll just look at the pics,read the stories,get a few laughs
I'd call that a success, by my criteria, any day. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I was a bit misleading in what I said earlier, though. Actually, I do a little mowing, but no more than can be handled by one charge of the Black & Decker electric push mower. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Charlie_Iliff · Jan 5, 2002

Re: Micro TL w/o B, PT425

Would that be a TGC, LGC or TLGC or mini TLGC?

Definitely, Yes

gordon · Jan 5, 2002

Well Mark, you have stirred the pot no doubt. LMAO

But you can refer to my first post in this thread to my feelings on any tractor.

Something that hasn't been brought to the table on this thread is bobcats. After all all of the attachments your using are just that for bobcats. Another thing is a tracked model of tractor. Bobcat is making one now as well as posi trac. Very low footprint weight and also use the same attachments.

Now you say that you can't use a track model because of scuffing of a lawn. What do you think new rig is going to do to a wet lawn. So here is something that should be brought to the table tracked models. They have crab steering,,, Don't they? With the new style of tracks they can be run up and down the road as well.

Also how would the EF do on some muddy skid trails? Can it mount a skidding winch? Just curious,, u know thinking outside the box.

One last thing, about using a rotary cutter in front of you. after you spend a couple of 12 hr days with one in front of you let me know if you still like that concept. I've used them both ways now so I have my mind made up but I'm curious to see what your final decision is. Can say this the hydraulic gearbox is nice on a rotary cutter. I see expanded metal in your future./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bottom line is ----is it making me money? yup-----is it making me a profit??? yup

Don't get me wrong, but before I would rush out and buy an earth force I would take a good hard look at the tracked models of tractors as well. They are taking off in sales for good reason, their time has come. They fill a niche market just like the earth force does.

What are the base prices of the EF line?

have fun
Gordon

fractal · Jan 5, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>

I don't mow any grass - bushhogging, yes, mowing, no. That automatically makes my needs different from 75% or so of TBNers, I suspect. I don't do any plowing. Tilling, yes, plowing, no. That makes my needs different from some, too. Nevertheless, I'd contend I use my equipment for just as many different types of jobs as anybody, and the EarthForce machines are the most versatile there are for the subset of tasks I need to do.

<hr></blockquote>

A man after my own heart. Although I would state my situation as "I don't mow any grass with the tractor". 5000 sq ft of lawn on 3 sides of the house separated by gates and numerous trees with low hanging branches make using a tractor to mow my lawn a waste of time. 45 minutes with an old 5hp MTD mower gets the job done just fine. A couple of hours or so with a 4hp wheeled string trimmer does all the 'bush hogging' I need to and most of it is on slopes I wouldn't take the tractor. I also don't have to contend with snow. Those three make me, much like you, different from a vast majority of TBN'ers.

So, would a mini TLB have done the jobs I do just as well if not better?

You bet.

Why did I get a CUT instead of an earthforce or maybe a PowerTrack?

a. I didn't know about earthforce when I bought the tractor. Thank you for introducing them to me.

b. I doubt I could have got an earthforce with tiller and post hole digger for 9k.

I bought my tractor cheap and can turn around and sell it for what I paid for it. That is why I picked a CUT.

That plus an insatiable need to play with power tools

Cheers!

MChalkley · Jan 5, 2002

Gordon - Having talked to you on the phone once, I can just hear you laughing now... /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

I don't know much about the tracked machines at all. But, if anyone else does, I'm listening. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif They don't have crab steer, though. Another thing I think makes them, and skid steers, less versatile is the inability to use a rear-mounted implement.

There are at least two hydraulic front-mounted skidding winches that would work on the EarthForce that I know of. As for performance on muddy trails, I can't say that I know for sure yet. But, it does have full time 4WD, positive traction differentials front and rear, and pretty good weight distribution, with something on the FEL. So it ought to do pretty well. It needs a tire upgrade, of course, but that didn't stop me from buying my Kubota, either.

My EF-5 would no doubt do some serious damage to a sloppy lawn, but so would my Kubota L4310. I've really been immpressed with the 4wd implementation on the EarthForce machines - it's almost as good as the PowerTrac machines. I can spin circles in a wet gravel driveway without tearing it up at all. My Kubota wouldn't do that. If anything, I expect an EarthForce machine would do much less damage to a lawn than a considerably lighter CUT, if the CUT is in 4wd.

I haven't done your requisite "couple of 12 hr days" with a front mounted bush hog on the EF-5, so I'll let you know. But I have used one on a skid steer, and an ASV track machine for about that long, though, and I liked it a lot better than the rear mounted one, at least for big stuff. For pastures, etc. I expect the rear mount would be just as nice, or maybe even better.

gordon · Jan 5, 2002

Ah the track machine,, best of both worlds maybe? Time will tell as with alot of things. But I'm looking forward to see how well the EF does in the mud. Floatation//versus weight. But it all boils down to use and if it can be improved.

As I said in a previous post, the thing that I liked the least on mine was the strengh of the loader. Of course there is always the subject of traction as well. That is with any machine. You can have all the hp. in the world but if you don't have the traction to back it up it's useless.

With many things time will tell
Gordon

MChalkley · Jan 5, 2002

RonL - Thanks for your post. You made some good points.

And WELCOME to TBN! You decided to jump in at the deep end, didn't you? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

gordon · Jan 6, 2002

Ok here is another option that if you have a compact that comes to mind.

A quick attach plate for the bucket. Ok there is some added weight. Then also a plate for the bucket as well right?

How much would the combined added weight be to the loader?? Now if you used some larger lift cylinders on the loader to compensate for the added weight. Presto your in the ballpark of alot of bobcat attachments as well. Cept you don't have the hydraulic output needed to run some of them

How does that sound Mark???
Gordon

MChalkley · Jan 6, 2002

Gordon - We kicked that weight issue around on one of the threads recently. I think the quick attach system would only add 100-150 lbs. of weight. Of course, that doesn't matter, if you've got an EarthForce /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif, but it's more of an issue with CUTs.

Your point is valid, though: With a quick-attach and hydraulic PTO on the CUT loader, all kinds of possibilities are opened up.

RPM · Jan 6, 2002

My uses ...

- Mowing, mowing and more mowing (usually grass, sometimes corn when it doesn't produce and I get annoyed)
- Ripping - to prepare the garden
- Towing - my kids playset around the yard when my wife can't make her mind up where it should go after I have spent days making it in the originally selected spot
- Towing - my kids around the fields in the cart - mini "hayrides"!! (They love it)
- Moving mulch around using my 3pt scoop (poor mans FEL)
- Grading and plowing with a rear blade - depending on the season

In the future ...

- Tiller this spring - garden will be expanding
- Post hole digging - another spring project

Think that's about it ...

Patrick