Tragedy that has to happen to be believable?

[aczlan]

With most rescues, if you do not have at least a little training, you are about as likely to get injured yourself or do more damage to the person in distress as you are to help the person in distress.
Think of water rescues, confined spaces rescues, car accident rescues, all of them have a very good potential for an untrained rescuer to do more harm than good.

Aaron Z

 

[Sigarms]

I can tell you that when afforded the opportunity, all people of all ethnic backgrounds learn equally well how to swim.

I would like to think that would be common sense

Thinking about your comments about the dangers of moving water compared to the ocean, two things scare me the most. A low head dam with increased water flow, and a rip current. I believe more people are killed each year by rip currents in the ocean than those who go white water rafting (I guess it could be argued that those who go rafting are at least under supervision).

With most rescues, if you do not have at least a little training, you are about as likely to get injured yourself or do more damage to the person in distress as you are to help the person in distress.

Once paddled a creek that had a substantial increased water flow. Long story short, kayaker who probably shouldn't of been on the water was, and got trapped and died. Two firemen died while trying to recover the body. One of those firemen was going for his divemaster qualification. I sincerely hope that fire departments have now learned that you DO NOT teather yourself to a rope when you go into swift moving water. What some don't realize IMO is that even slow moving water can easily become hundreds of pounds per square inch of force on your body if you're "stuck" on something.

 

[MossRoad]

I would like to think that would be common sense

Thinking about your comments about the dangers of moving water compared to the ocean, two things scare me the most. A low head dam with increased water flow, and a rip current. I believe more people are killed each year by rip currents in the ocean than those who go white water rafting (I guess it could be argued that those who go rafting are at least under supervision).



Once paddled a creek that had a substantial increased water flow. Long story short, kayaker who probably shouldn't of been on the water was, and got trapped and died. Two firemen died while trying to recover the body. One of those firemen was going for his divemaster qualification. I sincerely hope that fire departments have now learned that you DO NOT teather yourself to a rope when you go into swift moving water. What some don't realize IMO is that even slow moving water can easily become hundreds of pounds per square inch of force on your body if you're "stuck" on something.

They don't call low head dams "drowning machines" for no reason. We had to watch many movies of low head dam rescues during training. Yikes! It looks like it would be fun to go tubing over one of those until you watch one or two of those videos. Many victims AND rescuers lost their lives. A real hidden danger.

And it is more like Thousands of pounds per square inch, not hundreds. Plenty of power to bend a boat in half, let alone pin your body against something.

 

[MossRoad]

Go down to a low head dam and watch the water pour over it. As the water plunges down off the face of the dam, the void it creates is filled by water rush back UPSTREAM towards the face of the dam. Look out 10 or more feet from the face of the dam and you will see what is called a "boil line". That is where the water comes back up. The boiling water splits at that line. Some goes downstream and some goes upstream. Anything buoyant will go back towards the face of the dam inside that boil line zone and spun under and up, under and up over and over again with little hope of getting out unless there is a break in the face of the dam somewhere. So, basically, it will keep pummeling you until you get exhausted and drown.

Here is a link to a video of a rescue boat with three people on it trying (I believe) to retrieve a drowning victim from a low head dam. Watch as the boat approaches the face of the dam. Once it crosses the boil line, it accelerates right into the face of the dam and swamps. They cut the video at that point, but as I recall, several rescuers died.

YouTube - Binghampton New York Dam Drowning

Here's a link that explains what happens pretty well.
YouTube - Low Head Dam Dangers Boone Iowa

There's lots of videos on Youtube if you search river dam rescue.

Best for everyone to learn to swim and get educated about water safety. :thumbsup:

 

[Sigarms]

And it is more like Thousands of pounds per square inch, not hundreds.

Please keep in mind, I said slow moving water

 

[charlz]

I sincerely hope that fire departments have now learned that you DO NOT teather yourself to a rope when you go into swift moving water.

We had a teenager die a few years ago. Heavy rain and debris clogged the 2 foot culvert in front of their house. He was tied to a rope and tied off to something solid. He waded out and cleared the jam. The sudden current pulled him down and he drowned. If he had not been tied off he might have been better off in that he possibly would have just been flushed through the culvert and out the other side.

We also just had a 20 y/o girl die tubing on the Boise river from a low head dam. It is a section that is marked as dangerous because of the dams but not closed to floating/boating. The dams are scheduled to be replaced by some type of hydraulic bag dam that can be deflated if necessary.

 

[SPYDERLK]

And it is more like Thousands of pounds per square inch, not hundreds. Plenty of power to bend a boat in half, let alone pin your body against something.

Neither.
larry

 

[Sigarms]

Neither.
larry

If you have a river flow of 5,000 cfs, how many pounds per square of pressure is the water creating on your body by chance if you are pinned on something?

unless there is a break in the face of the dam somewhere

That is why they are so dangerous, because rarely is there any "break" on the face of the dam.

What looks very dangerous could actually be easy, and likewise, what looks simple could be very dangerous. This pic was taken a long time ago on a man made dam. Although it looks dangerous, due to height and water flow, actually pretty easy and no chance of getting caught in a "boil line".

 

[jimmyj]

We have had a frightening number of people drown in Ontario this summer. Most have been "new Canadians" who were from places where they never had the chance to learn to swim. And, the majority were males of family age who were not wearing life jackets! Very sad.

 

[SPYDERLK]

And it is more like Thousands of pounds per square inch, not hundreds. Plenty of power to bend a boat in half, let alone pin your body against something.

Neither.
larry

If you have a river flow of 5,000 cfs, how many pounds per square of pressure is the water creating on your body by chance if you are pinned on something?

Given speed of the inundating water [rather than total river flow] there are those that could figure it out almost off the top of their head. Not me. Off the top of my head tho, and from deep enuf in to know it for a fact, the pressures seen are much lower - in a range below 10psi. -- Its forces [pressure times area] that are huge. A force of a thousand or more pounds can easily be applied to a person.
larry